rantingredneck
New member
Heart lung shots only for me with a rifle or slugs. I will do head/neck with buckshot as I've put more deer down quickly that way with a shotgun than by shoulder/heart/lung.
Question for experienced hunters only. (No posers please)
- Thread starter Super-Dave
- Start date
If you are new to hunting I would advise you to use the heart/lung shot. Probably 95% plus of the deer harvested are killed that way. There is a reason.
Watch deer in the field for a while. Notice how they almost instantly bob their head up between bites of food, see how they move. If at some point you think there is a necessity for a head or neck shot and you feel confident, maybe. But, don't start out that way.
Watch deer in the field for a while. Notice how they almost instantly bob their head up between bites of food, see how they move. If at some point you think there is a necessity for a head or neck shot and you feel confident, maybe. But, don't start out that way.
Fat White Boy
New member
Shot choice is an instinctive thing for me. It depends on the distance, wind, angle, etc. I prefer to use the shoulder as a target. It gives you a little wiggle room if something happens like the game jumps or moves just as you shoot. You are still going to put the round in a vital area...
MeekAndMild
New member
My 2 cents worth.
I never take a head shot on a deer. Deer will jump at the sight of a muzzle blast and jerk their heads up to see what's going on. I've been hunting with guys who've told me about head shots missing from as close as 75 yards; the deers get their jaws blown off and disappear in the woods to slowly starve.
I don't particularly like heart shots. I've never had a heart - shot deer to run away but I've had several which ran off into the woods before they died. Actually I've only made a few heart shots because I prefer to shoot higher. A good lung/shoulder shot will knock the deer down where a heart shot won't. Also, a deer heart is only the size of your fist but his lung is the size of a volleyball.
My favorite shots are lung and lung/shoulder shots from the side and shots into the part of the body which would be just higher than the collar bone if deer had collar bones (which they don't) from the front. I'm not sure what you call it on a deer but the sweet spot looking at him from face on is kind of a dimple between his neck and shoulder. Those shots will go into the big blood vessels at the roots of the lungs and drop the deer quickly. If you don't know the angle of the deer just find its front legs and aim between them halfway up it's body height.
I've taken a couple of neck shots and if you concentrate on the neck very close to the body they drop the deer immediately. I've never had a neck-shot deer do anything other than fall over, but I only shoot the part of the neck closest to the body. From the front that's at the bottom of the white spot and from the side its in front of the shoulder.
I also never bow hunt. I tried it a few years ago and had a really nice doe lined up. She saw the arrow and jumped out of the way of it so that it barely nicked her in passing. I have no idea how a deer could contort their body into the shape of a question mark so fast but she did it. Never again. Too much chance of missing, just like head shots with a rifle.
(BTW, stay away from shots too far aft. Deer stomachs contain 2 or 3 gallons of a really nasty fermented liquid which gets all over everything if you happen to hit them.)
I never take a head shot on a deer. Deer will jump at the sight of a muzzle blast and jerk their heads up to see what's going on. I've been hunting with guys who've told me about head shots missing from as close as 75 yards; the deers get their jaws blown off and disappear in the woods to slowly starve.
I don't particularly like heart shots. I've never had a heart - shot deer to run away but I've had several which ran off into the woods before they died. Actually I've only made a few heart shots because I prefer to shoot higher. A good lung/shoulder shot will knock the deer down where a heart shot won't. Also, a deer heart is only the size of your fist but his lung is the size of a volleyball.
My favorite shots are lung and lung/shoulder shots from the side and shots into the part of the body which would be just higher than the collar bone if deer had collar bones (which they don't) from the front. I'm not sure what you call it on a deer but the sweet spot looking at him from face on is kind of a dimple between his neck and shoulder. Those shots will go into the big blood vessels at the roots of the lungs and drop the deer quickly. If you don't know the angle of the deer just find its front legs and aim between them halfway up it's body height.
I've taken a couple of neck shots and if you concentrate on the neck very close to the body they drop the deer immediately. I've never had a neck-shot deer do anything other than fall over, but I only shoot the part of the neck closest to the body. From the front that's at the bottom of the white spot and from the side its in front of the shoulder.
I also never bow hunt. I tried it a few years ago and had a really nice doe lined up. She saw the arrow and jumped out of the way of it so that it barely nicked her in passing. I have no idea how a deer could contort their body into the shape of a question mark so fast but she did it. Never again. Too much chance of missing, just like head shots with a rifle.
(BTW, stay away from shots too far aft. Deer stomachs contain 2 or 3 gallons of a really nasty fermented liquid which gets all over everything if you happen to hit them.)
I always prefer a H/L shot. The others are too iffy unless the range is short. I have had deer facing away from me and made them turn by rattling a sling swivel or a low whistle but if you do that you have to be already sighted where the H/L will be when they turn to look cuz they're not usually going to hang around afterward. I had one doe at 40 yds. facing away and I rattled my sling. She kept her head down and peeked past her legs then went back to browsing. I did it two more times before she turned enough to give me a shot but I got her. Most times they turn and look for a couple of seconds then they're gone.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
For someone who is relatively new to hunting, the old adrenalin rush is commonly a factor. The heart/lung shot gives more margin for error. The same holds for those who may not be highly practiced in rifle skills.
I ws lucky, starting in with a .22 around age seven. I got my first '06 at age 16. My father was one of these superb shots who could hold offhand, sight and kill. Pick your distance; he didn't care. My uncle's attitude about a Springfield 1903 with iron sights was, "If it jumps up inside of 300 yards, it belongs to me."
I guess I didn't think it was legal or ethical to shoot a deer anywhere but in the neck. Hey, I was a good kid; I did what the grownups did and what they told me to do. I will say that when you bust 'em in the white spot, they fold up and quit.
The years went by, as years will, and I sorta put a limit to the neck shot thing, no matter what my father had been observed to do. Somewhere between one and two hundred yards I'll go for the chest instead of the neck. Beyond two hundred yards, I don't even consider a neck shot unless everything is perfect and I'm maybe showing off a bit. "Perfect" means a good rest and a patient, cooperative deer--plus that old Zen feeling that says everything's gonna go just right. All that doesn't happen very often.
Art
I ws lucky, starting in with a .22 around age seven. I got my first '06 at age 16. My father was one of these superb shots who could hold offhand, sight and kill. Pick your distance; he didn't care. My uncle's attitude about a Springfield 1903 with iron sights was, "If it jumps up inside of 300 yards, it belongs to me."
I guess I didn't think it was legal or ethical to shoot a deer anywhere but in the neck. Hey, I was a good kid; I did what the grownups did and what they told me to do. I will say that when you bust 'em in the white spot, they fold up and quit.
The years went by, as years will, and I sorta put a limit to the neck shot thing, no matter what my father had been observed to do. Somewhere between one and two hundred yards I'll go for the chest instead of the neck. Beyond two hundred yards, I don't even consider a neck shot unless everything is perfect and I'm maybe showing off a bit. "Perfect" means a good rest and a patient, cooperative deer--plus that old Zen feeling that says everything's gonna go just right. All that doesn't happen very often.
Art
ClarkEMyers
New member
Head or neck when I'm tired and cold and not thinking very well.
Head or neck when I'm tired and cold and not thinking very well.
Does pay to look at mounted specimens and especially museum skeletons for an understanding of where all the vital parts really are in different species. That is it's not really a head shot - it's a brain shot; the jaw doesn't count and it's not really a neck shot it's a spine shot the dew lap doesn't count and so it goes.
Head or neck when I'm tired and cold and not thinking very well.
Does pay to look at mounted specimens and especially museum skeletons for an understanding of where all the vital parts really are in different species. That is it's not really a head shot - it's a brain shot; the jaw doesn't count and it's not really a neck shot it's a spine shot the dew lap doesn't count and so it goes.
castnblast
New member
my decision on shot placement has a lot to do with the animal itself, as well as my rest, and range. In lots of cases I opt not to shoot at all simply because something does not "feel" right about the shot. I only shoot when I feel I can put the bullet exactly where I want it. This does not mean I don't miss, but I try to eliminate it as much as possible. As fare as the head/neck shot, I want a calm animal, with predictable movements, or one that is staring me down...if I have a rock solid rest. My breathing must be under control, and buck fever minimal. I usually take these shots on does, because they usually fall under this category, and I have been watching them long enough to not be jittery. Also, when I shoot a doe, it's always a meat hunt, and I dislike the mess when you shoot em in the innards. The benefit to this shot is It's going down. I have heard stories of head shots going bad, this that, and yes it does happen, but the shock of the bullet hitting the animal close to the brain usually knocks em down. If the animal is kicking excessively after a head or neck shot, (very seldom mind you) then I will try to put another round in the head to be on the safe side, because I've heard the stories of animals getting up and running off, and I believe them. I can think of one specific time where that could have been the case, and I know the follow up shot may have been what kept the animal from being wounded.
That being said, my decision for a shoulder shot (I don't shoot behind the shoulder) depends on the distance. I like head/neck shots to be 150 or less, preferably less. because it's a very precise shot. A shoulder shot while precise, has much more margin for error, especially if the animal is moving. Another factor is the load. I hunt w/ a 22-250, as well as a 7mm rem mag. Obviously, I'll take a shot w/ my 7mm I won't take w/ the '250. I have killed animals w/ shoulder and head/neck shots w/ both guns. Terrain is another factor...especially w/ the '250. I'll shoot a deer in the shoulder w/ my '250 in open terrain, but won't in dense cover. That's where the 7mm comes in.
all in all, it boils down to knowing the limitations of what you are hunting with, and your personal abilities. That comes from experience, and practice.
That being said, my decision for a shoulder shot (I don't shoot behind the shoulder) depends on the distance. I like head/neck shots to be 150 or less, preferably less. because it's a very precise shot. A shoulder shot while precise, has much more margin for error, especially if the animal is moving. Another factor is the load. I hunt w/ a 22-250, as well as a 7mm rem mag. Obviously, I'll take a shot w/ my 7mm I won't take w/ the '250. I have killed animals w/ shoulder and head/neck shots w/ both guns. Terrain is another factor...especially w/ the '250. I'll shoot a deer in the shoulder w/ my '250 in open terrain, but won't in dense cover. That's where the 7mm comes in.
all in all, it boils down to knowing the limitations of what you are hunting with, and your personal abilities. That comes from experience, and practice.
I prefer the lung shot, and if I get the heart in there too it's a bonus. Where I hunt elk those things are always moving, and nobody every took a shot past 150 yards, and they are ususally around 50-100 yards - there is just too darn many trees.
I have yet to take a head or neck shot for the aforementioned reason, but probably should have in 06 when a cow elk presented a broad side shot to me. Huffing a puffing up hill, she's there between two trees about 100 yards uphill (what else!) I can see her head, and her body. I take the body, she drops... and gets up and runs off. This was 11 am. We track her all day, but lose the trail in the dark. First light comes and we pick it up again, only to lose it 3 hours later. I still don't know where exactly I hit her, but i'm sick about it to this day. No shot is fool proof, and never underestimate their will to live. I got one the next day with my .308, with a h/l shot that fell up hill towards me. She was dead before she hit the ground.
Same year a hunting buddy shot a herd cow 3 times in the h/l area and she kept running, to this day we talk about how seemingly impossible it was she was even alive, let alone running. Her insides were jello, and could barely distinguish any lung tissue at all, and the heart was blown to bits, as were both front shoulders. Only a head shot would stop her.
This last year, my son got his first elk with a shoulder shot that missed the h/l, but the 7mm mag 160gr Fail Safe creased her liver. He failed to consider the angle (which I need to work with him on). She was quartering towards him, and still dropped. You could tell she was in pain, and my 10mm headshot ended it quickly.
I killed two this year, both with double lung shots, both were running full steam. One was clean, was was not.
The h/l is not the end all shot, none of them really are, but it is the most forgiving, as many have stated. I would only try a head/neck if the elk wasn't moving, and was un-alrmed, holding still, etc., that hasn't happened yet. h/l is a BIG target.
Tom
I have yet to take a head or neck shot for the aforementioned reason, but probably should have in 06 when a cow elk presented a broad side shot to me. Huffing a puffing up hill, she's there between two trees about 100 yards uphill (what else!) I can see her head, and her body. I take the body, she drops... and gets up and runs off. This was 11 am. We track her all day, but lose the trail in the dark. First light comes and we pick it up again, only to lose it 3 hours later. I still don't know where exactly I hit her, but i'm sick about it to this day. No shot is fool proof, and never underestimate their will to live. I got one the next day with my .308, with a h/l shot that fell up hill towards me. She was dead before she hit the ground.
Same year a hunting buddy shot a herd cow 3 times in the h/l area and she kept running, to this day we talk about how seemingly impossible it was she was even alive, let alone running. Her insides were jello, and could barely distinguish any lung tissue at all, and the heart was blown to bits, as were both front shoulders. Only a head shot would stop her.
This last year, my son got his first elk with a shoulder shot that missed the h/l, but the 7mm mag 160gr Fail Safe creased her liver. He failed to consider the angle (which I need to work with him on). She was quartering towards him, and still dropped. You could tell she was in pain, and my 10mm headshot ended it quickly.
I killed two this year, both with double lung shots, both were running full steam. One was clean, was was not.
The h/l is not the end all shot, none of them really are, but it is the most forgiving, as many have stated. I would only try a head/neck if the elk wasn't moving, and was un-alrmed, holding still, etc., that hasn't happened yet. h/l is a BIG target.
Tom
The only thing I see wrong with a "shoulder" hit is personal... I hate to lose the best cuts of meat to a bullet wound... If I had no other shot I would likely take the shoulder shot but prefer a quartering away or quartering towards me so both my entrance and exit wound are in less than ideal eating meat...
Save them quarters for the table. But if I have to take out a shoulder it gets fed to the dogs and I am "all that and a bag of chips" in their eyes...
Brent
Save them quarters for the table. But if I have to take out a shoulder it gets fed to the dogs and I am "all that and a bag of chips" in their eyes...
Brent
About the only reason that I know of for a point of the shoulder shot is for the DRT factor. I took this shot on my Bull elk last season due to the fact that he had just topped out on the ridgeline where I could drive my truck to him for pickup as opposed to having to retrieve him out of the adjacent canyons. True, I lost some meat but the slipped disc and fracture I had in my back didn't get worse....
elkman
elkman
1KSbuckHunter
Inactive
I did some rifle hunting, and muzzleloaders, for whitetails many years ago. I never took any shot but for the lungs. For the past 15 years I have been archery hunting whitetails, and early on I took two shots that were not lung shots. One was a between the eyes, one in the neck (both within 10 yards). Both were instant drops, the quickest kill shots I ever made with a bow. However, I've never attempted those type of shots since, and that has been for over tweleve years. Why? I let hundreds of whitetails walk by me within 20 yards each season. What I discovered is that you are never left with the choice of only one shot. I have deer walk away, then turn broadside. I've watched them run off 300 yards, then walk back to me and stand broadside. I had them disappear for hours, then return, and I've seen the same deer at a different stand location weeks later. I am by no means in any way telling people what shots they should not take, only that you are never left with only one choice. My personal challenge is to wait for the shot I want, not take the shot given to me.
T.A.Sharps
New member
You have to know what you are capable of and what your gun/cartridge are capable of, in the given situation you have your sights on that deer.
Practice at the range a lot and know your hunting gun really well, and you will know what you can hit and not hit.
You want to kill the animal clean.
Its a horrible feeling when you take a shot you shouldn't of, and that deer is crawling away with two legs, making that horrible noise, and you have to go up and shoot it in the back of the head.
Practice at the range a lot and know your hunting gun really well, and you will know what you can hit and not hit.
You want to kill the animal clean.
Its a horrible feeling when you take a shot you shouldn't of, and that deer is crawling away with two legs, making that horrible noise, and you have to go up and shoot it in the back of the head.
predator86
New member
just one piece of advice from me
if you are new to the sport of hunting then here are my tips, nothing on huntin game, camo, scent control, scouting or tracking, since you are a virgin to the sport, do yourself a favor and TAKE A HUNTER'S SAFETY CLASS, in there they cover the basics of hunting, laws in your area and ethics along with the most important thing-gun handling in the field
handling a gun in the field is completely different than at the range, so who cares how old you are, enroll in a class with a bunch of 12 year olds looking forwards to their first year hunting and by the end you will fit right in with them
if you are new to the sport of hunting then here are my tips, nothing on huntin game, camo, scent control, scouting or tracking, since you are a virgin to the sport, do yourself a favor and TAKE A HUNTER'S SAFETY CLASS, in there they cover the basics of hunting, laws in your area and ethics along with the most important thing-gun handling in the field
handling a gun in the field is completely different than at the range, so who cares how old you are, enroll in a class with a bunch of 12 year olds looking forwards to their first year hunting and by the end you will fit right in with them
davlandrum
New member
My buddy uses the "off-side shoulder" method of aiming, and it does work. From most angles (this does not work from tree stands), if you aim to strike the off-side shoulder, you will drive it through the pump-house.
Down side is, you will often lose that off-side shoulder.
Down side is, you will often lose that off-side shoulder.
I have been teaching FAS over 20 years and always encourage parents to sit through the class, and if they are not certified, they can be.
BUT, i have to insist that they let the youth respond in the class. I do not want the adults to "Hy-Jack" these young kids Firearms Safety Class. It is not fair to them. I do however look to them to move things along if the youth are stumped on something. They are not ignored.
In MN there is also a Home Study Course and an On Line course for those 18+.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/firearms_isa/index.html
practice a lot. Practice from different rests, sometimes i practice resting on my ATV seat because i know that is the most likely position i will be shooting from.
go for the kill you KNOW you can make. It is really important (for me anyhow) to make the most humane kill possible.
YK
go for the kill you KNOW you can make. It is really important (for me anyhow) to make the most humane kill possible.
YK
davlandrum
New member
I thought he meant using the seat for a rest, not actually sitting on it.