question for chl,ccw holders

thanks for all the responses, I now have an understanding of when and where.
As for me, I never argue, I leave. Im 32 years old now, and have been to 3 bars in my entire life and havent drunk alcohol in over a year. Now understand, im no goody goody, I just feel that the money and time spent in a bar could be spent elsewhere (like reloading or range time) :)
Most of what you all have told me, was what I had figured to be right, never let anyone know its there ( key word is concealed isnt it?) :) And to never use it unless it was a last resort situation.
Again thanks for the replies, Cuz

btw..whats the story behind the handle"missmanytoes"? ;) thats surely one Id like to hear.
 
For Texas folks: (Again!) http://capitol.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/codes/PE000007.html (Yeah, that's five zeroes.) will give you Chapter 9 of the Penal Code. This seemed worth printing out...

Hmmm. Just went there, following my own advice. Trying to get to some "home page", I kept getting "you're not authorized" messages. Being sneaky, I just changed the number from 7 to 6, et, voila! So, try 6 and 5 and...

You can browse around and learn more.

Bookmark it!

Art

[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited February 05, 2000).]
 
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the three-pronged test that many states use to determine if deadly force was justified.

1) Does the BG have the ability to kill or cause serious injury? Is he armed? Has he show superior strength or fighting ability?

2) Does the BG have the opportunity to kill or cause serious injury? Is he in a position relative to you that allows him to use the weapon?

3) Does the BG have the intent to kill or cause serious injury? Has he made threatening gestures or comments that show that he intends to harm you?

In my state, where the three-pronged test isn't written into the law, the courts use it to interpret the law.

Get to know the laws in your area. Can you defend property? (My state says. "No.") Must you attempt to escape? (My state says. "No.") Can you defend people other than yourself and family? (My state says. "Yes.") And NEVER shoot at someone who is escaping from you! If he is running, he is no longer a risk to you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My cut, FWIW. If, in that brief eternity of time between drawing and firing the perp turns tail and runs, the situation is over for me. Now, is that brandishing, or is it a legitimate use of a firearm for self defense?[/quote]

If you had a legitimate reason to draw the gun, you had a legitimate reason to draw the gun. It isn't brandishing. Let's pray that all incidents that justify the use of force go this way.


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Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked.
Nehemiah 4:17,18
 
sigh...for those of you who just have to know, "missmanytoes" is my cat. :) SHE has lots of toes for a cat. I have the regular amount for a human ;) MMT is a handle I use all over the place because I know it has not been taken...unlike "sarah". I never have to ask more than once for a user name since I started with MMT.

Dennis, I dunno about "Don't even mention it to the good folks you're with." All my friends know I have the CCW. And they all carry as well, so for me, worrying about the "Well *DO* something! *YOU'VE* got a gun!" is pretty much a non-issue.

I think that it is a judgement thing...if you think the person you are with is gonna blab something stupid like that, don't tell them. But then, why would I hang out with someone THAT stupid on a regular basis? :D

Seriously though, kids have to have it drilled into them on a pretty regular basis not to spontaneously utter remarks about the gun you have on your hip/ankle/wherever you put it. I trust my kids not to mention it. For them, CCW has been a fact of their lives since they can remember. My nieces and nephews all know I carry (because they have each hugged me and said "what's THAT?" or they have been cold and wanted Aunt Sarah to give up her jacket), but in a truly dangerous situation would they blab? I dunno. Time to have the talk with them again.

-sarah
 
Sarah,

Use your own judgement about telling your friends. But remember, your
judging their ability to maintain both discretion and good judgement under
stress.

I know for a fact, proven by prior circumstances, that many of the people with
whom I *must* associate, have neither the discretion nor judgement to bet my life
on.

So long as you've considered the issue, then it is up to you to decide it "is pretty
much a non-issue."

In my case, they would make a bad situation worse, probably get me killed and then say it was the gun's fault.

(sigh) You can pick and choose your friends, but not always your associates.
 
1.) I would NEVER let it be known to anyone.
2.) When/if a family member or I was in danger of injury (serious)/death then perp dies without hesitation. PERIOD.
 
Never, ever tell anyone that you are carrying a firearm or show your weapon to scare someone into leaving you alone. It is called a "concealed weapon" for a reason. Before you show your gun to anyone, make sure that you would be legally justified in using it in case the person doesn't back down.

Let's say that I'm a bully and I need my ego inflated and for whatever reason I decide to get in your face as you are going to your car, or into a store or where ever. Instead of being a coward and running/walking away, you unbutton your coat to display your firearm and you calmly say to me: "Look. I don't want any trouble." Or, maybe you don't say anything at all.

The mere sight of the gun turns me into "Mr. Nice-Guy" and I walk away but I note that you were carrying a stainless steel revolver or a blue 1911 or a Glock or something that might have looked like a Glock (say, maybe a S&W Sigma).

I also note where you are going and as soon as you are out of sight, I call 911 and report that some crazy man was cursing at me and pointed a gun at me. Pointing a gun, even an unloaded one, at someone without justifiable cause is considered aggravated assault.

The police now have a report of a nut with a gun. Within minutes the police arrive on the scene, confront you and find your firearm which matches my description of your gun. The tables are now turned -- you are now the bad guy and I am the innocent victim. In their eyes part of my story is already true -- I've described you and your gun. How else would I know that you have a gun and what it looked like unless the rest of my story is also true (that being that you pointed the gun at me like I said).

You are arrested for aggravated assault and if convicted, most states and communities require a mandatory prison term.

Or, let's say that when you flash your gun and I don't turn into "Mr. Nice Guy". Instead of backing away, I get in your face even more and start screaming at you: "What are ya gonna do? Shoot me? Go ahead *&$^@($^&, shoot me!" and I start shoving your around. Unless I had a deadly weapon (a knife, a baseball bat, even a screw driver) which I could use to seriously injury you or even kill you with, you would not be legally justified in firing your gun at me just because of verbal threats and some shoves or punches. However, by showing me your gun, you've now escalated the situation to the point where I just will not leave you alone because I know that you will not shoot because of the serious legal trouble that you'll find yourself in.

Whatever the situation, never show your gun unless you are prepared to use it and can legally justify using it. Otherwise, it can create more problems than it solves.

------------------
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
 
Just a little real world from here in Texas..

A local lady felt she was being followed. She made several turns and tryed to leave the suspected stalker behind. He stayed with her. She stopped at a local quickie mart as did the "suspect". At this point, the lady is pi$$ed. She pulls back her jacket and with some pointed explitives tells the "suspect" to leave her the (&^*& alone. "Suspect" calls 911 and says he has been threatened with a gun. The lady is arrested.

Right? Wrong? Indifferent?... she went to jail.

Too many people have already said it. If your life is not in immediate danger, don't show it. Get away.

As I have said before, a number of my friends will ask me if I am armed. I tell them every single time "I will not answer that question because it is no ones business if I am or am not." And I will leave no tell tale signs either way. If the merde hits the occilator, then the BG in question will find out. But no one will know before then. That is the REAL value of concealed carry; no one knows who is and who is not armed. And that makes EVERYONE safer.



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
====
It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
 
There's another point that has not been addressed here: disparity of force.
Most often, this disparity is easily observed, be it by size, number of aggressors, or weapon(s) involved. However, there are others who, due to physical impairments (visible or not)do not have the luxury of being able to flee or participate in a physical confrontation.
There is one poster on these boards who is an imposing specimen...a rather large fellow, but he also has major health concerns which preclude him from getting into a physical encounter. His "line in the sand" will be much different than, say a healthy, 6',200 lb. 35 year old male.
Every person's situation will be different, as will each encounter where the potential for violence exists.
There's those darn variables again... :D
 
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