question for chl,ccw holders

C

Cuz

New member
Im am interested in obtaining my Louisiana CCW,and while going over the laws concerning them, a question came to mind (yeh I know, that happens about once every 3-4 years) :)
I understand that everyone reacts differently when the situation occurs, but how hard do you think you would have to be pushed before you "let it be known", so to say, that you had a firearm? I guess what Im asking is, what would it take before you used your firearm in a bad situation?
This is something Ive been thinking about for a few days now, and Im not sure what is considered "appropriate" for the lack of a better word.
Sorry, I know what Im asking, but Im not a very good writer. So without starting some type of flame war or other nonsense, please let me know your thoughts..thanks Cuz
 
I have had a ccw permit in texas since the inception. I have re-newed,passed all the tests, and so on. I am also in the busines,as a dealer and instructor.

The one thing that has always stuck with me is --"the last resort" which,to me means, all other options are over---the situation can only be resolved,in order to defend your life or that of another---that deadly force--must now be used---no question--no doubt---it has hit the fan---the gravest extreme.

If you have an opportunity to avoid this situation---use that opportunity---dont brandish---but let the scumbag write his own letter. Shoot only as a last resort,when in fear of your life---you will go broke in civil court,right or wrong.

Good Luck!
 
I was fortunate enough to get the legal portion of my CCW training from a pro-gun Professor of Law. He said to ask your self "Am I there yet?" Meaning has this reached a point where a jury of strangers some months down the road will believe I had no choice but to shoot? BTW: as long as you still have the time to consider the question, you ain't there yet.

I've made the decision that I'll not show the gun until I'm forced to use it.

------------------
Strength is the outcome of need; security sets a premium on feebleness. H.G. Wells The Time Machine
 
Excellent question:

You use a firearm to prevent grievous bodily harm to you or your loved ones, first.

Depending on state, you have latitude about defending others.

But the first rule won't do you wrong.

While this is controversial many very serious people think that defense of property doesn't make the cut even if local laws suggest you can.

Lots of good books on this. Gila May-Hayes'
Effective Defense is aimed at women but a good read for others.
 
Have to agree with the others. Use of deadly force can only be justified as a last resort.

As for defending property, I don't own anything that is worth killing someone over, not even a low life scum bag.
 
Grayfox has it right. I will never just show the weapon, I will use it.

Do not ever show you are carrying. If you are in a bank and someone decides to rob it, let them. Be a good witness. You are not the law.

And remember, if you can run, then run as hard as you can. If you are cornered do not just show it or say I have a gun. Use it.

------------------
John
(formerly johnboy)
 
I will only draw my weapon when all other means of escape and defense have failed, and I am facing certain death. Only then will the gun come out of its holster. Brandishing is tempting for some new gun owners, but it's gererally a bad idea.
 
I work in a pawnshop and I wear it out and make sure everyone knows I have it. I also sell pagers and cell phones and my customers, some of them drug dealers(shocking), I am sure are carrying themselves. I would argue with them about piddly things, but now they see that gun and they back down, and quick. I work with my parents who are 30 years older than me and they have noticed the difference in some peoples behaviour. Would I suggest this in every situation, no. In my situation I think it has helped me a lot.
 
Cuz, it sounds as if you are describing an escalating argument here as opposed to something like a carjacking. Going with the argument scenario, here is my .02 worth.

"An armed society is a polite society"

Here's the thing. Even if the other person doesn't know you have a gun, YOU know you brought a gun to the fight. I believe that as a CCW holder I have the responsibility to avoid using the deadly force readily available to me IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. I don't mean letting something get physical, after all, I am only a 5'4" 130lb female here. I mean biting my tounge to keep something rash from jumping out of my mouth. It may mean apologizing for something I didn't do, or for something I did do that I didn't realize would offend someone. Basically it means de-escalating a scenario if possible, and if that's not possible, un-assing the area if I can. Walk away from the fight. Let the other guy win. Little does he know that you are both winners because one of you isn't leaking from little holes in his body and the other one isn't telling the cops those seven magic words "I want to talk to my lawyer". Grayfox and John Forsyth have the right of it...never show the gun until you are using it. And I'll add: never mention it either. If you tell someone you have a gun, you may be accused of actually brandishing it. The person you were arguing with may call the cops and *gasp* LIE and tell them you threatened them with it.

-sarah
 
No one in their right mind is going to tell you: "You can shoot someone if..."
Having said that, you can generally follow these guidelines. You must do everything possible to avoid the escalation of force, and you must not instigate the confrontation in any way. ie: Someone cuts you off in traffic, and you don't flip him the bird. (An armed society is a polite society) There must be an immediate and unavoidable danger of death or great bodily harm to the innocent. If you have to think about whether you are justified in shooting, you probably aren't. If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth fighting for. Even if there is no criminal case brought against you (LE or DA deems it a "justifiable use of force", you can bet your a$$ some slimey lawyer (no, they're not all slimey) will talk the surviving family into bringing a civil suite against you. It will cost you everything that you own, and then some to defend yourself. The realization of that fact alone convinces most people that they really don't want to ever have to shoot someone. You (and 12 of your peers) must absolutely believe that you will die immediately if you don't shoot your assailant. It truely must be a matter of life or death. Your choice is to either die wealthy, or live broke.
Run through the "Color Code of Mental Awareness", it will help you to identify and avoid a potential threat before it becomes a REAL threat, and will also prepare you (a little) to not turn stark-white and "freeze up" when that threat materializes. Lastly, get some good training. No matter how long you've been terrorizing bullseyes, it really hasn't prepared you for an armed confrontation.

------------------
The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.
 
I have to disagree regarding brandishing. Under certain circumstances I'd do it.

For instance...I'm pumping gas at a stop and rob. It's dark and an a couple of obvious thugs approach. Letting them see you're armed might make them decide to go away and find a softer target.

I'm not talking about drawing down on someone...think of it as a rattlesnake's warning. Don't tread on me. According to Dr.Lott, most armed encounters end w/o shots being fired.

If I were in an area with sheeple witnesses, I wouldn't do it.
 
I understand and completely agree with avoiding any escalation of a conflict AND that it is my responsibility to withdraw/retreat/escape/run away in order to prevent use of deadly force.

That being said, in all this discussion of when to draw a weapon, isn't it true that different jurisdictions might have different ideas as to when is the right <or wrong> time to draw a weapon? Primarily, I'm thinking about my home, i.e., if I've withdrawn to my home and the bad guy attempts to enter, must I withdraw from my "castle" if the ability to do so would be easy to do? Or is my castle considered to be my final place of withdrawal which I may properly defend an illegal entry with deadly force?

Does this differ from state to state? Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Texas <where I live> isn't that proper?

Joe

------------------
"Suppose you are an idiot. And suppose you are a member of congress.
But I repeat myself."
-- Mark Twain
 
Texas like Florida is a 'retreat' state. You have the duty to retreat if you can do so w/o endangering yourself/family.

EXCEPT in your home or place of business. There the castle doctrine rules and you can legally stand your ground.
 
All great responses. I think,IMHO, that carring a firearm requires a person to exercise more restraint than most. Like the others said, it should be a last resort. Conflict avoidance should be the rule.

An example: I used to like to go to a rough bar and drink cheap beer. Fights break out often, and spill out into the parking lot, knives included. I aways went with a buddy or two. Now that I carry regularly for years,and am armed, I don't go there. Alcohol and guns just don't mix. On the one or two occasions I have gone there since, my buddy was designated driver, not drinking and HE carried. I did not.

My point is, as a gun carryer, I feel I have a greater responsibility to avoid trouble. Most people on this board would feel the same way I'm sure. this seems to be the most level headed bunch of folks I've ever come across. Where are all the wild-eyed looking for a fight, crazy gun owners you hear about in the media?
 
Jeffelkins,
I disagree. Here's why: you flash a gun at the two thugs and they aren't thugs and call the cops- you get arrested, prosecuted, and lose your CCW. Or: You flash a gun, they are thugs, but the witness driving by only sees your actions and doesn't realize what is going on and calls the cops- same result as before.

Never flash a gun- there is usually no legal grounds for justification for it.

Erik
 
Missmanytoes,

(I'd like to hear the story behind THAT user name!! :D )
-----

Sarah says, "never mention it either. If you tell someone you have a gun, you may be accused of actually brandishing it."

Amen! And more!

Don't even mention it to the good folks you're with. As others on TFL have pointed out, if you're being held at gunpoint by some bad guys, that's not the time to have a friend or relative cry out,

"Well *DO* something! *YOU'VE* got a gun!"

(Cow paddies on parade!!!!)
 
My cut, FWIW. If, in that brief eternity of time between drawing and firing the perp turns tail and runs, the situation is over for me. Now, is that brandishing, or is it a legitimate use of a firearm for self defense? Hmmm.

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erik:
Jeffelkins,
... Never flash a gun- there is usually no legal grounds for justification for it.[/quote]

Sorry, I still disagree. Most of the time you're probably correct, but under certain well defined circumstances, display of a weapon might prevent trouble. Never say never.

My personal preference would be open carry, were in legal in Florida.
 
Dennis brings up a point that has worried me... Not to get off topic...

My daughter recently got her a little black .40 S/W M27 capgun, and her oldest boy (age 7) thought it was pretty cool... He told the neighbors, the people at DMV, etc... "My mommy's got a gun... And its BIG... And its BLACK... and it shoots bullets... and I am not allowed to play with it cause it it dangerous... yada, yada, yada..."

My fear is for her, when confronted by the BG, the little guy pops in and says "My mommy's got a gun, and she's gonna shoot you..." Whoops! The 7 year old will probably understand the talks she has had with him about this... I begin to worry about the 4 year old now...

What does one do???


As for Cuz...

You ask a great question... The answer... You never, ever "let it be known, so to say" that you have a firearm, period!!!

You avoid or remove yourself from the threat..... Distance is our friend...

AFTER you have the distance established... Communicate the situation to LEO's... Cell phone, etc...

If you are unable to remove yourself from the threat, and have no other recourse but to defend your life with a firearm... Don't simply "let it be known" Use the damn thing and defend your life... Exclamation Point!!! ;)

I hope and pray none of us are ever faced with the prospect of having to take the life of another human being, but if it is either me or them... It ain't gonna be me!

C-Ya!

------------------
Restrictive Gun Laws are ineffective... The day the criminals start obeying the law is the day we no longer have criminals.

It's Not about Guns... It's All about Rights!!!

[This message has been edited by jaydee (edited February 04, 2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top