Question for anyone who owns or runs a gun store.

A

aarondhgraham

New member
If I buy a toaster or a TV and it's bad out of the box,,,
I take it back for an immediate exchange or full refund of my money.

I have had the unfortunate experience of buying a handgun,,,
That was bad out of the box.

When I took it back (that day) I was told that they couldn't[/U ]give a refund on a firearm,,,
My only recourse was to send it to the manufacturer for warranty repair.

Now I suspect this couldn't is actually a wouldn't or don't want to thing,,,
The reason I think this way is because after long and vocal discussion,,,
The LGS owner finally took it back and refunded my credit card.

My question is, are there legalities preventing the refund for firearms that I'm not aware of?

One person I know who is a kitchen-table FFL owner said there are complications with the form 4473,,,
But personally I suspect this is more a policy of the LGS owner rather than law.

I do know that my Evil Pawn Shop guy will give me a buy-back guarantee on any used handgun I buy from him,,,
The way he describes it to me is that it's not really a refund per se,,,
But him buying it back in a completely separate transaction.

Can any of you good folk clear this question up for me?,,,
Specifically for a brand new handgun (or rifle) that's bad out of the box.

Aarond

.
 
I can't answer the basic premise of your question, but I will opine that, minimally, your lgs should return a defective firearm (especially one that was called to their attention on the same day of purchase) to the manufacturer for repair on their dime; accompanied with an apology to you for any inconvenience for this unfortunate experience you incurred. Minimally.
 
One person I know who is a kitchen-table FFL owner said there are complications with the form 4473,,,
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He's an idiot.




There is no Federal law or ATF regulation that prohibits you from returning the firearm or the dealer from accepting the return.

The main reason 99% of dealers do not accept a return is that they consider the firearm as "used" as soon as the customer takes it home.
-the customer may have removed or exchanged parts
-the customer may have attempted a repair himself
-the customer may simply have buyers remorse

A "No Returns" policy eliminates the dealer from getting scammed.

If the dealer has signage or prints "No Returns" on your receipt............it means no return. If the customer doesn't like that policy they should shop elsewhere.

I've sold guns at gun shows and twenty minutes later one guy comes back and wants a refund..........he found one cheaper three aisles over. Uh, no.:rolleyes:
 
The main reason 99% of dealers do not accept a return is that they consider the firearm as "used" as soon as the customer takes it home.
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This is how the shop I go to operates, and it is completely understandable.
If there is a problem with the gun they have no problem shipping it back to the manufacturer for you, but who's to say someone returning it just didn't like the gun as much as they thought and just want a refund. For them to just take the gun back and give a full refund, even if it has never been fired, they cannot turn around and sell that gun as factory new. It's no different then cars, it's just the nature of the business. If I have a problem with a gun, it's on the company to fix, not the shop that sold it to me.
 
I work at a pawn shop that sells a lot of guns and the owner has a 14 day return policy on anything in the shop, including guns. So, it is a gunshop policy to not take returns. Academy Sports has a no return policy for instance.
 
I work at a pawn shop that sells a lot of guns and the owner has a 14 day return policy on anything in the shop, including guns. So, it is a gunshop policy to not take returns.
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Do you sell new and used guns, or just used? The big difference is, a used gun is still a used gun if returned. A new gun is no longer new once it has been returned back to the shop.

I was at the shop I frequent once and some poor guy came in saying he had to sell his brand new AR he got a week earlier because his girlfriend said she didn't want it in the house. He never even fired it, and the shop said they could not outright refund him or they would lose money as it would have to be sold as used. The best they could do for him is refund him what they would get for it which was pretty decent as the shop wasn't making a dime off him. I also live in a state that requires guns to be registered in your name, so once the gun is transferred to a person, it would be unethical for the shop to turn around and sell that gun as new.
 
I have worked at several gunshops over the years. There is no law, paperwork issue or anything else stopping a gunshop from giving a refund. However, there is a liability issue. It's the same reason very few shops will give refunds or exchanges on ammo or reloading components. Once a gun goes out the door, you never know what might have been done to it before it came back.

We were always happy to handle shipping a gun back for repairs if it was defective, but we had signs clearly stating that there were no refunds on guns, ammo or reloading components.
 
I can understand not making refunds on a new gun because the gun is no longer new and should not be sold as such.

The FFL I use though does not do refunds on any guns. But they are happy to help you get it factory repaired. They will even work in it them selves if you wish but you much sign a form stating that you are aware that having the local smith fix it may void your factory warranty.
 
However, there is a liability issue. It's the same reason very few shops will give refunds or exchanges on ammo or reloading components. Once a gun goes out the door, you never know what might have been done to it before it came back.
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Did the shop not sell used guns? The same liability issues would exist.
 
Did the shop not sell used guns? The same liability issues would exist.
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there are some shops out there like that. I bought my Walther P22 at such a place. I would venture to guess that most gun shops sell used guns in addition to the new guns.
 
KyJim said:
JawjaBoy said:
However, there is a liability issue. It's the same reason very few shops will give refunds or exchanges on ammo or reloading components. Once a gun goes out the door, you never know what might have been done to it before it came back.
Click to expand...

Did the shop not sell used guns? The same liability issues would exist.
Click to expand...

I think the liability concern is a product of selling the firearm as New. Once the firearm goes out the door, I would not consider the firearm as new. If the gun is returned, can the gun really be sold in "factory new" condition when the owner doesn't know what happened with the firearm for x hours/days? If the gun is then sold as Used, then the owner is eating a good portion of his/her profit.

I agree, the liability only exists if the owner attempts to sell the returned gun as New, but what owner would want to throw that money away.
 
If I buy a toaster or a TV and it's bad out of the box,,,
I take it back for an immediate exchange or full refund of my money
Click to expand...

Toasters and TVs fall into one category, but don't think guns are the only thing that is different. Try "returning" a house after you buy it. Most stores will not let you return movies or music cds.
 
I don't think returning such a firearm to the sales inventory would be possible at all. If I bought a new firearm and then found out that it had been returned to the store as defective, I would be heap plenty steamed.

That is not to say that they shouldn't satisfy the customer by handling the return and repair, exchanging it, or refunding, depending on the circumstance. Dealing with such things, including wading through necessary paperwork and being in contact with suppliers, is a cost of doing business.
 
If I buy a toaster or a TV and it's bad out of the box,,,
I take it back for an immediate exchange or full refund of my money.
Click to expand...
W/certain tools, plumbing and electrical fixtures and a whole slew of other home repair items, you don't return them to the store once you buy them either - if they are defective.
They go back to the manufacturer or an authorized repair center.

Some will tell you don't return the item to the store if it's bad, take it to an authorized service center.
 
Originally posted by JimmyR

I think the liability concern is a product of selling the firearm as New. Once the firearm goes out the door, I would not consider the firearm as new. If the gun is returned, can the gun really be sold in "factory new" condition when the owner doesn't know what happened with the firearm for x hours/days? If the gun is then sold as Used, then the owner is eating a good portion of his/her profit.

I agree, the liability only exists if the owner attempts to sell the returned gun as New, but what owner would want to throw that money away.
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This is exactly correct. I should have been a bit clearer in my post. We sold both new and used guns, but did not do refunds on NEW guns. We would trade them, repair them (we had an on site gunsmith), and in very rare cases issue a store credit. We tried to keep customers happy, but we also had to keep the store in business.:cool:
 
I do understand that it would be a "used" gun,,,

I do understand that it would be a "used" gun,,,
I worked retail and we couldn't repackage anything and sell it again as new.

But doesn't the LGS have the option of returning a defective gun to the distributor for a refund or replacement?

W/certain tools, plumbing and electrical fixtures and a whole slew of other home repair items, you don't return them to the store once you buy them either - if they are defective.
Click to expand...

I've seen this notice on major appliances,,,
But when I bought a hot water heater form Lowes,,,
It leaked the moment I turned the water supply back on,,,
One phone call and Lowes exchanged it for a new unit that very day.

I just don't understand why a gun store can't refund or exchange the gun,,,
And then get a replacement or a refund from the distributor.

At least I now know to ask what the stores policy is on new defective guns.

Thanks for the info and insights,,, :)

Aarond

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I worked at Bass Pro for a few years, the policy was that we would take back a gun if purchased within 30 days and that the gun had not been fired. Once the gun was fired it became a used gun and couldn't be resold as new.
 
Do you sell new and used guns, or just used? The big difference is, a used gun is still a used gun if returned. A new gun is no longer new once it has been returned back to the shop.
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Both new and used.
 
I can see it from the OP's point of view, but I would say that on the whole, most gun stores are typically running a similar policy where a defective gun is going to be returned to the manufacturer by the customer. I would think they may do it differently if you buy the gun and don't yet leave the gun store. We've even had a frequent TFL participant here that told us his local gun store will sell Taurus guns but maintains up-front that -ANY- problems with the Taurus will be dealt with between customer and MFR.

Gun stores certainly set themselves up for better customer relations when they make this known up front.
He's an idiot.
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This really isn't necessary and may not be accurate. And I say this knowing well ahead how much you enjoy arguing about FFL stuff. ;)

Frankly, if the dealer gives Aarond a different handgun right then and there because his original purchase is defective, this could easily be construed as a genuine 4473 "HASSLE" simply because he's going to have to fill another one out. Different serial number leaving the store, a new 4473. So we could argue about the definition and usage of "hassle" but we might be able to agree that no dealer can just pull another gun off the stocking shelves, hand it to the OP and say "here ya go!"

From my own personal experience...
Back during the the Brady 5-day wait, I purchased a new handgun and when I came back to the store to actually take delivery of it, the double action trigger was so horrendous that I asked to see another for comparison, and then asked them if I could have a different gun. They said that would be fine... but I had to do another 4473. And pay for the background check (which we did at the time) And wait another 5-day period. :(

THAT was a hassle.
I did it anyway.
 
There is nothing illegal about accepting a returned firearm. But I understand why they don't, especially on a new gun. I don't own a gunstore, but have close friends who do. On a used gun, some of the local stores will often work with someone and allow you the full price you paid on trade for something else if the gun is clearly defective. Especially if it were potentially dangerous.

On a new gun the problem is between the buyer, you, and the manufacturer. And this is no different with many other consumer goods. Some stores will take stuff back, then return it to the manufacturer for a replacement. Some will not, so the problem is not just guns.

A reputable store will assist you with the return. Many times boxing up and even paying the shipping costs for you. I wouldn't expect ANY gunstore to simply take my gun back and replace it with another. Even though they could in most places. In some areas where they have 1 gun a month restrictions or registration requirements it could be a problem.
 
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