Question about selling a gun...

[Tom Servo]

maybe you can find a gun dealer or pawn shop owner who can act as intermediary. Of course, then the buyer will have to pay an FFL transfer fee, but that's a small price to pay for a good night's sleep.

The advantage to that approach comes to light if the guy you sold the gun to turns out to be less upstanding than you thought.

Let's say I have a Glock 19 I want to sell. Even if my state does not register firearms, the dealer from whom I bought it will have the record. Should that gun show up at a crime scene, it will be traced back to me.

If I sell the gun to Billy, and despite my best judgment, Billy snaps and uses the gun in a crime, it'll come back to me. While I'm unlikely to face prosecution (they'd have to prove I knew Billy was ineligible), it'll certainly be a hassle.

If I have an FFL handle the transfer, they'll log it into their books from me and to Billy. If Billy decides that knocking over a liquor store is good business sense six months down the line, the ATF trace will lead to him, not me.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I have to disagree that fiddletown's "lawyer talk is simple fearmongering." He... (or perhaps she)

Thanks, and "he" works fine.

...all your lawyer talk is simple fear mongering...

Why? How could I profit by peddling fear? What would be my motive? How would I, or any lawyer, benefit from my suggesting ways someone could avoid or minimize trouble?

And actually my colleagues who are still working for a living stand to benefit the most from people messing things up very badly and then having to pay a lawyer to sort out the mess. If one pays attention and takes reasonable precautions, he can maximize the likelihood that he'll accomplish his purposes and minimize the likelihood that he'll be contributing financially to some lawyer's lifestyle.

Yes, assessing those with whom one plans to do business is a very important part of the equation -- perhaps the most important part. But people make mistakes, and a few additional precautions won't increase your risk.

...and if one knows what to look for, it is impossible to lie...

But then again, "Pride goeth before a fall."

 

[ScottRiqui]

If I have an FFL handle the transfer, they'll log it into their books from me and to Billy. If Billy decides that knocking over a liquor store is good business sense six months down the line, the ATF trace will lead to him, not me.

I admit I'm unclear on how this works. I know that FFLs are required to keep physical records of the transfers they do, but does the information also go to some central repository? Otherwise, wouldn't an ATF trace of the weapon still lead back to you?

I'd think the trace would go from the manufacturer, to the distributor, to the FFL that sold the gun new and then to you. Of course, if you used an FFL to transfer the gun to Billy, your conversation with the ATF would be short, something along the lines of "I've sold that gun, and Bob's Gun Shop in Podunk, Nebraska did the transfer."

 

[Tom Servo]

I know that FFLs are required to keep physical records of the transfers they do, but does the information also go to some central repository? Otherwise, wouldn't an ATF trace of the weapon still lead back to you?

Actually, FFL's are now required to report all used guns they buy to the ATF. No personal information is recorded, but they have to submit a form with the make, model, serial number, caliber, and date purchased.

So, essentially, the gun's history gets "reset," with that dealer as the starting point with any trace.

I see Spats and I posted the same thing at the same time. Great minds think alike

 

[ScottRiqui]

Actually, FFL's are now required to report all used guns they buy to the ATF. No personal information is recorded, but they have to submit a form with the make, model, serial number, caliber, and date purchased.

So, essentially, the gun's history gets "reset," with that dealer as the starting point with any trace.

Okay, that makes sense (and seems like a much more useful system) - thanks!

 

[csmsss]

I think we all know by now that only a tiny fraction of firearms in this country are ever used in the commission of a crime. Probability is on the side of those who buy/sell firearms with little to no documentation/investigation prior to the sale. However, probability is NOT certainty, and the question you have to ask yourself is what you're prepared to give up in exchange for engaging in a firearm transaction that skirts state and/or federal laws? Do you have many thousands of dollars to retain a defense attorney should the DA or DOJ come a knockin'?

Philosophically, morally, and politically, I'm on the side of those who believe that these laws are unnecessary, intrusive, and infringe upon our 2nd Amendment rights - but I'm also a realist and understand that in the current climate, those who are accused of breaking firearms transactions laws in the sale of firearms to people who later commit crimes with them can receive astoundingly harsh treatment in our criminal justice system.

Do what you want, or not - I'm just glad not to be in the habit of doing private firearms sales and having to worry about it.

 

[dogtown tom]

Tom Servo

Quote:
I know that FFLs are required to keep physical records of the transfers they do, but does the information also go to some central repository? Otherwise, wouldn't an ATF trace of the weapon still lead back to you?

Actually, FFL's are now required to report all used guns they buy to the ATF. No personal information is recorded, but they have to submit a form with the make, model, serial number, caliber, and date purchased.

So, essentially, the gun's history gets "reset," with that dealer as the starting point with any trace.

Do you have a source for that statement?.
ATF has no such "form", no used gun reporting requirement, no such "reset" of serial numbers.
All ATF forms are here:http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/

When the FFL acquires a "used" firearm he is required to log it in his bound book exactly the same as if he acquired a new gun. He is also (contrary to your above statement) REQUIRED to record the identity of the person from whom the firearm was received, as well as manufacturer, model, serial #, type and caliber.

 

[shortwave]

... I have to disagree with fiddletown's "lawyer talk is simple fearmongering...

Why would you call advice from a retired(I think) att'y that stands in no way to make a profit from giving advice to what could become a very expensive lesson, fearmongering.

There's another thread on TFL in which a member purchased a pistol that has no serial number. He discovered the lack of the serial number upon his initial cleaning of the pistol.
If he would have followed fiddletown's advice, asked for a bill of sale with the serial number on it, buyer would have known pistol had no serial number prior to purchase.

As it stands, before long, I surmise this buyer will be getting ahold of fiddletown or one of his colleagues.

 

[Spats McGee]

I was not calling fiddletown's post fearmongering, shortwave. I was disagreeing with another member's post, which stated that his "lawyer talk" was "simple fearmongering."

 

[shortwave]

Please forgive me Spats.

I misunderstood your post

Would have helped if I would have read Edwards post first.

Every FTF transaction I've ever made(whether buyer or seller) has gone well. It's just standard practice to see ID of other party along with a signed bill of sale for both parties involved.

 

[Spats McGee]

There's nothing to forgive, shortwave. No harm & no foul.

 

[shortwave]