Question about cocked and locked

T

tranders

New member
I know when carrying a 1911 cocked and locked the safety engages against the sear but not the hammer. This kind of bothers me.What if the hammer hooks broke while carrying? I know the chances of both of them breaking at the same time are slim but it is possible.I hear a lot of people knocking the 80 series guns but I think the firing pin block would prevent a accidental discharge if this scenario ever happened. On my Star the safety engages the hammer and it also has a firing pin block.
I dearly love 1911s but I'm just trying to convince myself they are save to carry cocked and locked. When I have carried one of my 1911s I've always either used condition two or three.
Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!!:)
 
So you don't feel alone, I never carry a 1911 "cocked and locked." I just practice racking the slide as I draw. I think it takes about 0.1 seconds longer.
 
I've never heard of the scenario of which you describe happening. Not to mention that there is also the half cock to think about. Do what you feel is the best for you, but I have no qualms whatsoever about carrying a cock and locked 1911. If you are racking the slide, you are taking at least 2 things away from yourself that I can think of right now. One, you lose one round that would have been in the chamber plus a full magazine, and what happens if you don't have the means to rack the slide for reasons very numerous; guiding a loved one out of harms way, fending off a BG, took a shot from a BG already and free hand is incapacitated...
You can rack the slide with one hand, but it takes practice to get it right and a lot more time than 0.1 seconds. As soon as I draw, the safety is disengaged which takes 0 seconds to do in the normal motion of drawing and getting a bead on the target.

Just my 2 cents worth...
 
Sure seems like Mr. Browning thought about that when he designed this fine pistol, so he put the so called "half Cock" notch on the hammer. Colt took it alittle farther with the 80 Series firing pin safety..Cocked and locked is the way too go...
 
There's a whole lot of other types of pistols out there. If you're not "comfortable" with cocked-and-locked, carry something else. I don't want to seem like a smart a**, but really, if you're hinky about this, why bother?
 
Cocked an locked carry is very safe, as long as the user knows what he or she is doing, and the gun is set up properly. If it's a custom gun, and it's for defense, the trigger should be at least 4 pounds, and the hammer/sear engagement has to be done right. As long as this is the case, there really is nothing safer out there, except for HK's sqeeze-cock system, which is unbelievably safe. However, again, the user has to know how to handle this system as well.

Pretty much all AD's with a properly set up 1911, that occur while while it is cocked and locked, do so due to user error, i.e. mishandling of the system.
 
I never really thought about the half cock notch.Having that in mind I'm starting to feel more comfortable with condition one carry.The reason I want to carry a 1911 is because I shoot them better than any other gun I've shot.The only thing I ever do is add a long trigger to my .45's and I shoot respectably.Thanks for all the input.:)
 
Carry the pistol loaded, the hammer cocked and the safety engaged. I've never understood why people get so worked up about Condition 1 but never say anything about Glocks or revolvers. As wise man in Tejas say, "at least with a 1911 I have to take the safety off to shoot myself. With a Glock you only have to violate Rule #3!"

Condition 2 is dangerous. The hammer can snag and drop back down. Ouch. As Jeff Cooper said about such as accident in Azania when numbnuts was carrying like this and had an ND, "it can make thing quite exciting."

Condition 3 is dangerous. The pistol is a defensive, reactive weapon. It is used in response to threats. Movies and GSCs aside, you will need to draw when you are attacked, not before.

Yes, every Gunsite alum has seen the Swedish National Police Draw. If practiced, you can get quick; however, no one can guarantee both hands in a fight. Even assuming both hands, you will need every tenth of a second. You have been attacked! Why handicap yourself? (Anyone ever screw up racking the slide? Sweaty hands, nerves, excitement, loud noises around you, blood and mud on the weapon? No, that never happens).

Remember, it is you, not the weapon who is responsible for safety. Buy a good 1911. Go to school, again and again.
 
There's a whole lot of other types of pistols out there. If you're not "comfortable" with cocked-and-locked, carry something else. I don't want to seem like a smart a**, but really, if you're hinky about this, why bother?
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more.
 
I’ve never understood why people get so worked up about Condition 1 but never say anything about Glocks or revolvers.
Click to expand...

Uh … Because of the short single-action trigger pull of the 1911?

Or is this just my ignorance about 1911s showing? :rolleyes:

~Glorf
 
I've repaired guns that guys had dropped directly on the hammer,while cocked and locked.The thing that broke,in all cases,was the hammer itself,right below the spur.The hooks were fine.I always replace the sear,too,even if it looks OK.
 
Condition 2 is dangerous. The hammer can snag and drop back down. Ouch. As Jeff Cooper said about such as accident in Azania when numbnuts was carrying like this and had an ND, "it can make thing quite exciting."
Click to expand...

I Agree with KSFreeman.

Tony
 
To ease into carrying cocked and locked, try wearing your empty, holstered 1911/1911A1 around the house with the hammer cocked and the thumb safety off for a week or so. If the hammer falls it is because you pulled tthe trigger. Then wear it for a week or so with the thumb safety engaged and see if the safety "wipes" off.


When I was in the police biz and carried a C&L 1911, I had officers express concern about the safety of a cocked pistol (even when the safety strap was between the hammer and firing pin) but those same officers never said a thing about someone holding a 870 with a round in the chamber and the safety on. No visible hammer to remind them the shotgun was cocked, I guess.
 
When I first got my CCW permit, I, too, was bothered by a 45 "cocked and locked." There's something about seeing that hammer cocked that is just plain disconcerting. But, it really isn't any different than carrying a shotgun or rifle during hunting season. The shotgun or rifle is also "cocked and locked." A bullet is chambered. The gun is cocked. And, the safety is engaged.
Dennis D. Carter
 
Here we are again, only FEAR that will made you think twice if you want to carry cocked and locked. It is just a matter of getting used of it.

In the colt 80 series you have the following safeties:
*Firing Pin Safety
*Grip Safety
*Manual Safety
*Disconnect Safety

With the safety features mentioned, you are as safe as you think of.

If the hammer hooks broke, you have still few safety features that holds it. Just like, if how about if the manual safety wipe-out, then there is still the grip safety that holds it. As long as it is well holstered and none will intervene the trigger of whatsoever kind then my personal opinion is, it is so safety.

What you feel is what I feel also when I newly carrying this type of gun. But asking experienced people and fondling the gun trying to squeezed the trigger while being cocked without pressing the grip safety, I've seen that the hammer will not fall to the firing pin. It would be more safety if holstered.

This is only my personal opinion.
 
I have a series 80 with the firing pin lock, and am very confident in its safety. When I was just getting used to carrying it C&L, and still had some reservations, I did an experiment on my dads old series 70 combat commander. I dont suggest you do this, just that I did. His gun was old and in need of a rework anyway. I chambered a primed case, cocked it and repeatedly threw it rolling, tumbling across the carpeted floor to see if a drop would drop the hammer. I must've did it 10 or more times, and the hammer never did drop. This gun is safe, at least until an idiot gets ahold of it and violates a rule or three...

The series 80 has an extra safety that the 70's do not, the firing pin lock. If you want to carry C&L, replace the hourglass looking plunger in the slide once in awhile, as it will get peened around the edges...

The fear is in your head, The safety is in your head. Both cured by practice and familierization. Before going off full cocked, I carried it around the house with a primed case in the chamber, full cocked, no safety engaged, and ya' know what? It never popped the cap...

The series 80 does not have a true half-cock notch, so dont carry your series 80 at half cock!
 
Glorf, I don't know about ignorance, but Glocks have a short, single-action trigger pull and no external safety. Why the hysteria about 1911s, but not Glocks? Inquiring minds want to know! My bet is the external hammer (the gun is COCKED-"oh, the children").
 
My G30 Trigger has about a 5 lb trigger... just like some of my 1911s.

Difference is the G30 has no external safety.

I have no problem with that though, and love my Glock.
 
I also have a Glock 30, and I have learned to appreciate its safety mechanisms. As long as you practice normal gun safety rules, it will not AD. It will not AD if you drop it either. I'm not sure I you can say that about a 1911.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top