Question about citizens arrest

C

Cooter85

New member
Hello, this is my first post. I have been reading posts here for a couple weeks now. I am excited to join a community that has the same passion for gun rights as I have. I recently got my CHL and am a little confused on all the gray areas. I live in Oregon. Anyway, on with the question.

If, for example, I see a woman being raped by a man. So I pull my gun on the man and order him to lay on the ground. As a civilian, what are my rights as far as holding the suspect until police arrive? Say if he tries to run, do I have the right to physically restrain him? or even strike the perp?

I'm not wanting to be a superhero. But if this situation was in front of me, I would hate to see the guy get away when I could have stopped him. If I saw on the news the next night that he raped again, I would be hard on myself for that.
 
Welcome to the forum. I would find your state laws and look it up, saying that you read it on the internet probably won't get you far if it ever came to trial. My guess is that a shooting is only justified in yours or someone else's life defense. Pointing a gun will be seen in the same light. If the guy is unarmed you would be in deep trouble. If he had a gun or knife your witness(es) better back you up. Even then you'd better hope the scum bag's family wasn't willing to pursue it.
 
In New Hampshire, you're liable for criminal penalties if you DON'T help a police officer when asked.
 
During a "Citizens Arrest" you do have the right to detain a person. You do not have the right to strike or physically harm them.

Even when detaining a person you can open yourself up to a lot of trouble if you try and restrain them. Not only is trying to cuff someone dangerous from a strategic standpoint, it also can leave you open for lawsuits from the person you restrained. All they would have to do is claim you injured them in some way by restaining them and you are screwed. You would not be protected by the same laws and regulations as are police officers.

As for shooting them, that is not an option if they are fleeing. Once they are fleeing they are not presenting an imminent risk to you or anyone in your immediate vicinity. Shooting them would most likely land you in prison. The whole "they present a risk because they will do it again" argument does not hold water in court because you are trying to play prophet.

We have only had one incident of a police officer losing his job in the last few years and it was an officer that fired his weapon at a car after the driver had committed a felony and fled.
 
It's my understanding that police generally have much greater latitude in using force to restrain or apprehend a fleeing criminal - since they are more or less duty-bound to do so if possible since that's what we pay them for, where you or I are not.

I suspect that the reason the cop you mention lost his job may have been because his use of that particular level of force against the fleeing criminal violated department use-of-force continuum policies.
 
Welcome,

Even in the most(your opinion) justified case of self defense, you could be held accountable for your actions.
TBS How do you go on with life not helping?
Same situation i believe myself could be in, as I am all for helping others.
We are very short on examples of what is a "good" citizens arrest. The armchair attorneys and Know-it-alls are probably using Goober's running down the street yelling "Citizen's Arrest-Citizens Arrest".
My visualization to a scenario such as you describe may go something like this(and this is just hypothetical).
This could be with or w/o a firearm, as i would put myself in danger to help someone(I believe).

"Stop" what you are doing "NOW", being prepared to engage physically to assist victim.(or with deadly force)
Call for help(911 if able) or shout loudly(for help). Separate party's(if able) Announce
"Loudly" (with I will prevail "MINDSET") that "you are under citizen's Arrest", and get very good description of details, somehow try for DNA evidence. by maybe digging fingernails into assailant for blood ("hey i grabbed him off her" I think the blood under my fingernail belong to him).
Use your brain,
If assailant runs, you would probably do better if you didn't have a firearm if you were to give chase.

Just some ideas, and you will not know for sure until you are faced with something.
 
You must check your state laws. NY says you are even fine to shoot him.

A private person acting on his own account may use physical force,
other than deadly physical force, upon another person when and to the
extent that he reasonably believes such to be necessary to effect an
arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person whom he
reasonably believes to have committed an offense and who in fact has
committed such offense; and he may use deadly physical force for such
purpose when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to:
(a) Defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes
to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force; or
(b) Effect the arrest of a person who has committed murder,
manslaughter in the first degree, robbery, forcible rape or forcible
sodomy and who is in immediate flight therefrom.



But even so, that does not mean I would do it! Common sense will help guide you, but start with the law.
 
The law on citizen's arrest varies from one jurisdiction the the next.

Here in NJ, a citizen's arrest can only be used when the citizen has witnessed an indictable offense. It must be said aloud, preferably recorded or in front of witnesses. This becomes a defense to a false imprisonment lawsuit (provided that the arrested party is actually charged by the prosecutor).

However, the law in NJ assumes that the arrester is a former LEO. As such, the courts would give the arrester certain latitude that would not be extended to the average citizen, who would no doubt be questioned as to why he's "playing cop."

Use of force is only allowed to defend oneself. Using force on a fleeing felon is not allowed by a private citizen. Therefore, it is generally not advised to carry out a citizen's arrest, due to the liability involved.
 
From the Oregon Revised Statutes:
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/

133.220 Who may make arrest. An arrest may be effected by:

(1) A peace officer under a warrant;

(2) A peace officer without a warrant;

(3) A parole and probation officer under a warrant as provided in ORS 133.239;

(4) A parole and probation officer without a warrant for violations of conditions of probation, parole or post-prison supervision;

(5) A private person; or

(6) A federal officer. [Amended by 1981 c.808 §2; 2005 c.668 §4]



133.225 Arrest by private person. (1) A private person may arrest another person for any crime committed in the presence of the private person if the private person has probable cause to believe the arrested person committed the crime. A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer.

(2) In order to make the arrest a private person may use physical force as is justifiable under ORS 161.255. [1973 c.836 §74]




161.255 Use of physical force by private person making citizen’s arrest. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, a private person acting on the person’s own account is justified in using physical force upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes it necessary to make an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person whom the person has arrested under ORS 133.225.

(2) A private person acting under the circumstances prescribed in subsection (1) of this section is justified in using deadly physical force only when the person reasonably believes it necessary for self-defense or to defend a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force. [1971 c.743 §31; 1973 c.836 §339]
 
I'm always amused when speculative blather is shot down by copies of code sections!!
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One thing you all seem to be forgetting is to read the code like a lawyer. The word "just" appears in many different forms in these codes.

Arrest someone without the monetary and legal backing of the police force and see how quickly your life savings is spent up in court facing a charge of unjust force when the assailant claims an injury imposed by you or claims you got rough with him when he was not resisting.
 
Just curious as to how long you've been practicing law? What kind of practice do you have?
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I used to be an LEO and it does not take much brains to realize the letter of the law can sometimes work against you. Believe me, we are very well schooled in the pitfalls of using force and an average citizen does not get the same protection an LEO does.
 
Along with the statue law is the case law showing how the courts have interpreted the statute law.

Unless you want to do a full analysis and put your money on the line (with no other backing) let the a-hole run.
 
Along with the statue law is the case law showing how the courts have interpreted the statute law.
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agreed.I have absolutely no idea what OR case law is on the subject, but I'm willing to bet it's SIGNIFICANTLY more restrictive than the statutes seem on the surface and in their wording.I was just posting the ORS for people to read and have available for thier discussion here, as I happen to have a "favorites" link to the state's website with the statutes, constitution, etc handy for referance.Personally, I cant imagine myself ever "detaining" anyone, unless they basically surrendered themselve to me when I produced my gun, or involuntarilly surrendered because I shot them (in self defense, or defense of a KNOWN innocent victim), and they were incapable or escaping.My interest is in stopping the attack, if they attempt to escape after that happens, I personally would not use deadly (or even physical) force to detain them.Deady force at that point would almost certainly (IMHO) land me in prison (and isnt nessecary, if they are no longer a threat to me or those immediatlely around me i.e-he dropped his weapon and started running, or was making no attempts to do harm while escaping).Trying to use physical force to detain would be foolish IMHO, and likely to get me, or others killed (I'm 5'%, 150lbs, 2 bad knees, asthma, and 34yrs old now).Odds are, they attacker would feel he could overpower me in a physical struggle (and odds are, he'd be correct), at which point he may take my weapon and kill me or others, or possibly just beat me to death, then continue whatever he was doing before I showed up.If he surrenders because I shot him, shot at him and missed, or because I threaten to shoot him, fine, I'll let him stick around till the cops come.Otherwise, I'll give the cops all the info I can when they arrive, and hope they catch him, and soon.
 
You really need to check your state specific law carefully. In NC there is no such thing as a citizen's arrest anymore. You may detain someone that has commited a felony in your home etc. but they are not "under arrest". You also could not shoot the person unless there was an imminent threat to you or somoene else. Also, you are not required to assist a police officer if asked but if you do you have the same authority as the officer and are covered by worker's comp while you are using that authority.
 
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