Question about .44 magnum bullet performance

[Rangerrich99]

Thanks again for all the replies, gents. I feel I have a much better understanding of not only what happened with those loads, but also what adjustments I'm going to make to the next reloads. And that I definitely need to slow down and be more deliberate at the range.

Some side notes: I did in fact match head stamps, though I only trimmed a half dozen cases; the rest were within .04 inches of each other. I also weighed every powder charge (I do this on every test load) to less than .1 grains variance. And when I finally decide on a recipe, I'll continue to weigh each and every charge, as I'm developing these rounds specifically for bear/mountain lion defense.

And I'm well-aware that my POI and group size are going to change once I start shooting off-hand. I just wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible for the initial zeroing of the sights. I feel (perhaps incorrectly) that once I establish what the gun can do with the least possible operator error , then all I have to do is get myself to shoot as close to that standard as possible.

And finally, I'm aware that faster rounds can't exhibit less recoil. I should've been more precise in my diction. What I meant to say was that the factory rounds seemed to recoil more violently, with a sharper initial impulse. The CFE reloads felt as if they were less violent, with a smoother (again, probably not exactly the right word) initial impulse. The 4227 reloads felt as if they were even smoother with the least violent impulse. So while both reload recipes definitely kicked hard, they felt more controllable than the Winchesters.

In other words, I felt that for quick follow-up shots either of the reloads would be easier to achieve than with the factory stuff.

 

[Hal]

I've picked up a Lee factory crimp die in .44; anyone have any tips for using this thing?

Just follow the directions. I love all my Lee Factory Crimp dies. They are a big improvement over the standard Lee crimp dies I had been using for years.

And finally, I'm aware that faster rounds can't exhibit less recoil. I should've been more precise in my diction. What I meant to say was that the factory rounds seemed to recoil more violently, with a sharper initial impulse.

Sure they can.
Load some 240 grain cast lead .44's up with Bullseye to ~ 1000 fps and compare them to 240 grain cast lead .44's loaded to 11, 12 or even 1300 fps using Alliant 2400.

The faster burning Bulleseye, even at a lower velocity, will set your teeth on edge. The faster stepping 2400 loads, using a slower burning powder, are -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- cats.
(stupid software....)

It's all about the rate of acceleration.

In that same vein.....

The factory loads to a price point. A faster burning powder will use a lot less to get to a velocity than a slower burning powder.
To get a 240 grain .44 slug to ~ 1100 fps takes about 17 grains of Alliant 2400.
To get a 230 grain slug to ~ 1100 fps using the much faster burning Bullseye, takes roughly half as much powder.

A pound of 2400 @ ~ $27 will produce 400 loaded rounds @ ~ 1100fps.
A pound of Bullseye @ ~ $24 will produce 875 loaded rounds @ ~ 1100 fps.

If you are a factory and you need to cut costs, halving the cost of a critical component makes good sense.

The factory probably doesn't use Bullseye and 2400 per say, but, you get the idea.

There's also a couple of other critical factors not mentioned.
The jacketed bullets are probably sized at .429" while the cast lead are @ .430" or even .431".

Can this make a difference?
Of course it can. When a hand gun recoils, it's not in a direct straight back line. The action of the slug engaging the rifling creates torque that twists the gun. The less time the bullet is in the barrel (faster burning powder with greater acceleration), the less the effect of the torque.
The slower the burn rate, the more time spent in the barrel and the greater the effect of the torque.

Plus - jacketed rounds are "sliperyier" ( brass or copper against steel is "self lubricating" - - that's why a thermostat in a car uses brass and steel) than lead slugs.

My next set of CFE reloads went right to POI, about half an inch high and the five-shot group was about 1.1 inches according to the digital calipers. Again all of this was from the bag rest at 20 yds. At that point I was out of CFE reloads so I couldn't test repeatability.

1.1" @ 20 yards from a rest w/open sights?????
I'd say you have a pretty good grasp of how to shoot that thing.
It doesn't sound at all like OE.

Oh yeah - - and it took me a bit to find this.....

The M69 uses a 1:20 RH twist.
That's a pretty lazy rate of twist for a jacketed bullet in a short barrel like that.
Also - how many rounds have gone through the barrel?
In my experience with newer (as in since 2000) S&W barrels, they all need some breaking in before they shoot right.
500 rounds of jacketed bullets or a light hand lapping of the barrel does wonders.

I also weighed every powder charge (I do this on every test load) to less than .1 grains variance. And when I finally decide on a recipe, I'll continue to weigh each and every charge, as I'm developing these rounds specifically for bear/mountain lion defense.

A bit tedious - - but - - nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[Webleymkv]

I also weighed every powder charge (I do this on every test load) to less than .1 grains variance. And when I finally decide on a recipe, I'll continue to weigh each and every charge, as I'm developing these rounds specifically for bear/mountain lion defense.

I think this is probably the main reason that you're seeing better accuracy with your handloads: they're more consistent than the factory ammo. A factory like Winchester is producing ammunition by the millions of rounds and they're simply not going to hand weigh every powder charge. To do so would simply be far to labor intensive and costly (as though .44 Magnum ammo isn't expensive enough already ).

Also, in my experience, WWB is not particularly high quality or consistent ammo particularly in .44 Magnum (it's actually pretty near the bottom of my list of preferred factory ammo). With the very same loading you were using, I've had one box display signs of being overpressure such as flattened primers and sticky extraction and the next box will have excessively dirty black cases because they didn't generate enough pressure to expand the case properly. If you're wanting to test for accuracy or zero sights with factory ammo, I would recommend something made to higher levels of QC than WWB.

 

[mete]

High velocity ? A chronograpph can teach you a lot. Handgun bullets have poor sectional density and poor ballistic coefficient . Push them faster ? Sure ,but they will slow down faster .We found in the long range metallic silhouette matches that 50 fps at the muzzle comes out to give only 5 fps at 200 yds !!! insignificant ! More accurate loads usually are a bit below max .Easier on you for recoil and easier on your gun .Go for accuracy !