Question about .38 Special

I asked for a box of .38 Super at a sporting goods store, and the clerk put a box of .38 Special on the counter. I made note of the error, and the guy said, "It fits all .38s, that's why it's special."
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I think I like this explanation better than Mike Irwin's. :)
 
Without a doubt our hobby has a bucket full of oddities.

I always figured that guns have been around for a lot of years, been developed in a lot of different countries and much of this happened without the 'benefit' of international standards committees which has led us to have to deal with a lot of what you call your 'nomenclature'.

Personally I never really appreciated the word 'arcane' until I tried to understand firearms. (Google definition: arcane - Understood by few; mysterious or secret.)

(I also freely admit my knowledge of firearms is still very limited, but that's why I come to The Firing Line and read these threads;))
 
There is no standard way of naming cartridges. The inventor can call it most anything they want. A .38 cartridge is roughly .38" outside diameter. The bullet that fits inside is .357". The "Special" is just a way to separate it from all other 38 cal chamberings.
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Not quite, and marketing as far as the actual numeric name IMO had little to do with it. First, it was a common practice to name a caliber after the case caliber rather than bullet caliber. Of course, one might ask why, but it was and still is commonly done that way. Of course, in cases like the 357 magnum and 38 special, S&W introduced both, and yet named the one cartridge by case diameter and the other by bullet diameter. For the famous question "why is it 44 magnum when the bullet is .429?" it was because the parent case was 44 S&W special, which had a parent case of 44 S&W aka 44 Russian. So when you really think about it, based on the history of the predecessors of the 44 magnum, marketing played little role in the chosen cal designation "44". With the 44 Russian's development, it was simply a matter of practicality in regards to the goal of making a black powder round with enough ft:lbs to be a man stopper. Of course, there may have been other ideas at play, but giving a catridge a numeric name for marketing was not done as much as you might think, and IMO none of these examples qualify.

Interestingly enough, the whole marketing theory of the origin of "44" actually happened in reverse. What I mean is that the 44 cal EARNED its reputation LONG BEFORE such guns as a 44 magnum arrived. So rather than "44" because it sounds cool, or because thats what Dirty Harry had, it was actually because it was a very effective and for S&Ws, such as the New Century (aka their first N frame) the round put a little more steel (vs 45, which would make the chambers bigger) in the cylinder, thereby strengthening it. Also remember that the 45 Colt already existed, so S&W felt that leaving the 45 cal alone, at that time, was a prudent choice. Of course decades before then, there was the 45 S&W aka 45 schofield, which was not a major success, but a success in its own right.

The "special" in 38 special certainly has meaning. Remember that when that round came out, around 1898 (for the S&W model 1899 aka first model M&P), it was a different time. There was no magnum, unless it was wine you were discussing. In 1898, even the 45 acp was not (officially) around yet. At that time, words such as "special" (and later "super") denoted a significantly higher power ("magnum" didn't come out until 1935). Yea yea, I know "hey man, a 38 special is not very powerful" well that all depends on what you are comparing it to. I promise you its much more powerful than a 38 RF, 38 colt or 38 S&W. The cartridge was contrived by adding case length onto the 38 colt due to complaints about a lack of effectiveness with the 38 colt cartridge. Its kind of like how the 40 S&W came to be, in reverse. Also, if you ever bother to read about cartridges, there were other "specials" such as the 32 WS aka 32 Winchester Special and the 44 S&W special.
 
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"Also, if you ever bother to read about cartridges, there were other "specials" such as the 32 WS aka 32 Winchester Special and the 44 S&W special."

What, like reading MY post, half way up the page from yours? :p

"For the famous question "why is it 44 magnum when the bullet is .429?" it was because the parent case was 44 S&W special, which had a parent case of 44 S&W aka 44 Russian."

The .44 Smith & Wesson cartridge wasn't the Russian, it was the even older .44 Smith & Wesson American, on which the .44 Russian was LOOSELY based.

The .44 American (originally known as the .44 S&W, but later called the American to differentiate it from the Russian) started life as a heeled-bullet design.
 
Well Mike, I think its pretty obvious that I sometimes quote your words as my own in an effort to feign intelligence.

Thanks for the info about the 2 44 S&W cartridges. I did not know all of that. I personally disagree that the "44 S&W American" is properly called the "44 S&W" and the "44 S&W Russian" the "44 Russian." I say this only because the Russian became infinitely more popular than the American. IMO, you give the name "44 S&W" to the cartridge which later became a standard chambering, and was made for many years. The American is much less common as are guns chambered in that caliber.
 
" IMO, you give the name "44 S&W" to the cartridge which later became a standard chambering, and was made for many years. The American is much less common as are guns chambered in that caliber."

Except that the .44 Russian was never called the .44 S&W by S&W, or advertised as such, while for a number of years prior to the introduction of the Russian, the .44 American WAS advertised/sold as the .44 S&W, or .44/100 S&W.

It wasn't until after the .44 Russian was introduced commercially in the United States that S&W and ammo companies began making the distinction between the American and the Russian cartridges.

Supica and Nahaus also refer to the .44 American as the .44 Smith & Wesson cartridge.
 
"Well Mike, I think its pretty obvious that I sometimes quote your words as my own in an effort to feign intelligence."

Oh, and just between you, me, and everyone else in creation?

That's not a particularly effective method for success...
 
Thanks for the extra 44 info - I understand now.

As for the remark about quoting you to feign intelligence, well that was my version of a joke. I was attempting to praise you in a funny kind of way and you turned into advice for me. Relax, I do know better than to do such things.
 
"Yep, it is a Jereboam. For the others, Google "wine bottle sizes" for capacity and physical sizes."

To hell with that, Jim...

I'm working on the .44 Tun.

You start by necking down a can of powder...
 
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