Quarter Bore Lovers

Taylor--I ran the ballistics thru Nikon's SpotOn ballistics app. That shows at 4000 ft. of elevation, using standardized atmospheric pressure for that altitude, with a temp of 40 deg. F and 20% humidity the energy at 100 yards is around 980 ft. lbs. (plus or minus---it is a graph.)

Does the Winchester ammo specifically say that at 4000 ft. their ammo has 1039 ft. lbs of energy? I have never seen box of ammo with that specific kind of data. And the Winchester ballistics calculator (unless I am too dumb to operate it correctly---which sometimes is the case for me) does not allow for altitude. :confused:
 
Flashhole Your not the only one With Number#1 in 25-06 I have 2,1 V mod 1 standard.Super deer rifle,Hits way harder than most people belive.But I really like the way it turns coyotes inside out.Been a 25-06 guy for 30 years no need to change now.:D
 
Colorado Redneck said:
Taylor--I ran the ballistics thru Nikon's SpotOn ballistics app. That shows at 4000 ft. of elevation, using standardized atmospheric pressure for that altitude, with a temp of 40 deg. F and 20% humidity the energy at 100 yards is around 980 ft. lbs. (plus or minus---it is a graph.)

Does the Winchester ammo specifically say that at 4000 ft. their ammo has 1039 ft. lbs of energy? I have never seen box of ammo with that specific kind of data. And the Winchester ballistics calculator (unless I am too dumb to operate it correctly---which sometimes is the case for me) does not allow for altitude.
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I used JBM ballistics calculator and the factory stated MV of the cartridge to come up with 1039. I also plugged in my actual elevation of 4300 ft and humidity of 30%, JBM still shows 1028 ft-lbs at 4000 ft. Nikon's spot on app shows 990 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards. I don't know what the difference is between the two calculators, it's on the edge but I've hunted with my 6mm-222 RM before. I use .222 RM brass and was able to satisfy the wildlife officers questions when asked.
 
Interesting data. That 25-35 rifle I used about 55 years ago is done gone. Dang it! Belonged to a brother that had other ideas so it only lives in my memory. In those days of course, the manufacturer data is what ruled for the CDOW. But I hunted on remote ranch that we owned and I am hoping the statue of limitations has run out. :D That was a really nice Model 94 and in good shape. If there is one rifle from the past that I could retrieve and own now, that would be it.

So, Taylor, if the hunting regulation states "....as rated by the manufacturer..." how does the discussion with CDOW go? You evidently are the manufacturer, but do they buy your data?
 
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I'm not a small bore guy, but some of the more powerful ones seem interesting, like the 257 Wby Mag.

I've been into medium and big bores lately... I have four 375 caliber rifles and a couple 458s. Other than rimfire I don't have anything smaller than .277. The 257 has my interest.
 
Colorado Redneck said:
So, Taylor, if the hunting regulation states "....as rated by the manufacturer..." how does the discussion with CDOW go? You evidently are the manufacturer, but do they buy your data?
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Well it was pronghorn season so I had phone service and could show him I was using 6mm Nosler Ballistic Tips since they are color coded. That's all he seemed to care about, plus my barrel is stamped 6X47 on the rifle. Most DOW officers don't seem to be gun geeks like some of the rest of us, besides they would have the burden of proof if they decided to arrest me. Which I'd win, I built the rifle because it's a ballistic twin to the 6mm PPC that feeds better from a magazine.
 
The stock on the Stevens 200 is an old B&C Carbelite stock. As far as I know they no longer make this stock. The closest rifle stock to it now would be the B&C Medalist.
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taylorce1, thanks for the info, I'm looking at a Bell & Carlson varmint stock, also seen a chassis system that I liked.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I have a storied old Remington 722 in .257 Roberts that has been flattening deer, antelope, and even a few elk since the 1960s. It shoots into 3/4" groups any day I can.

The gun's more recent highlights:

36 people have taken game with this since my father traded a set of cookware for the rifle and 8 boxes of shells. My father, mother, daughter, wife, sister, 2 brothers, and myself have all taken game with it.

I guesstimate it to have filled 200+ tags

It has dropped 3 elk. None required a second shot.

I have personally shot around 40 deer and antelope with it.

My daughter has killed 19 big game animals with it, including a 16" antelope with a first round hit at 536 yards (handload, 100gr corelok't).

My daughter has felled 3 very nice Mulie bucks with the little gun, at 120, 208, and 302 yards (this one from an off hand, sling wrapped position; she thought it was already hit but her first shot found a fence post). 2 of these dressed out over 200lbs. All 3 fell to the shot.

A pair of whitetail does were felled with it one at 455 yards, and another at 492 (laser ranged). Shooters were myself and my (now ex) wife. She also zapped a Mulie doe with it at 450 paces, and another at 401 (lasered the gut pile)

My Wife was the last to use it, this on her first antelope. A single shot at +/- 325 yards anchored the small buck to the spot.

This is a FANTASTIC little rifle, very accurate, and more importantly it is easy to shoot well due to it's light recoil, soft report, and great trigger.
 
I know most of you are trad gun shooters--but even the AR I put together is a remarkable shooter. I like the 257--an under-appreciated caliber for sure. I also recently built a 358--another vastly under-appreciated caliber IMO. : )
 
stagpanther said:
I know most of you are trad gun shooters--but even the AR I put together is a remarkable shooter. I like the 257--an under-appreciated caliber for sure. I also recently built a 358--another vastly under-appreciated caliber IMO. : )
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I like the AR you put together, and I like the idea of the .25-45 Sharps. But for plain economy it's just that the .223 can't be beaten in an AR platform. I can buy mass quantities of cheap FMJ and soft point bullets far cheaper than I can buy .257 caliber bullets for reloading.

I like the idea of the .25-45 Sharps because it basically duplicates .250 Savage performance with 87 grain bullets and lighter. It does it with a smaller powder charge and less recoil. This makes it a great option for recoil sensitive shooters to hunt deer with if the state requires larger than .224 calibers.

I built a 6X47 for that very reason, Colorado requires .243 calibers as a minimum for big game. I chose the .243 caliber simply because the bullets were cheaper to buy when compared to other calibers that I could use in the .222 Rem Mag case. Again economy won out because not only was I going to use it for big game but varmints as well. That and grain for grain all things being equal I could get better ballistics from the 6mm/.243 caliber bullets.
 
I like the AR you put together, and I like the idea of the .25-45 Sharps. But for plain economy it's just that the .223 can't be beaten in an AR platform. I can buy mass quantities of cheap FMJ and soft point bullets far cheaper than I can buy .257 caliber bullets for reloading.

I like the idea of the .25-45 Sharps because it basically duplicates .250 Savage performance with 87 grain bullets and lighter. It does it with a smaller powder charge and less recoil. This makes it a great option for recoil sensitive shooters to hunt deer with if the state requires larger than .224 calibers.

I built a 6X47 for that very reason, Colorado requires .243 calibers as a minimum for big game. I chose the .243 caliber simply because the bullets were cheaper to buy when compared to other calibers that I could use in the .222 Rem Mag case. Again economy won out because not only was I going to use it for big game but varmints as well. That and grain for grain all things being equal I could get better ballistics from the 6mm/.243 caliber bullets.
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That's built on a 308 action? I decided to stick with a conventional AR 15 platform simply because I have a nearly endless supply of spent 223 cases (and lighter weight than the 10 platform) and the operational capacity of the gun does not change--just significantly more impact force. The slight neck-up is very easy and does not require any additional re-working of the case (other than uniforming the primer pocket if you're re-using NATO spec mil sup cases). Making a sharp's AR is literally nothing more than swapping the barrel out and you're good to go.
 
No it's a .223 bolt face, my 6X47 is based on the .222 Rem Mag case. It's the parent case of the .223 and .204 Ruger. The 6X45 would be better in the AR platform, but I'm using a bolt action with a modified magazine to allow a .25" longer COAL.
 
No it's a .223 bolt face, my 6X47 is based on the .222 Rem Mag case. It's the parent case of the .223 and .204 Ruger. The 6X45 would be better in the AR platform, but I'm using a bolt action with a modified magazine to allow a .25" longer COAL.
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Interesting. I had trouble figuring out the 47 part--45 is very limiting as is.
 
stagpanther,

Nice rifle, I like the concept of the 25/45, that's a rifle I may have to consider building.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
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Thanks--as a straight forward no-nonsense conversion it's as easy as they get for an AR15. A BHW insider told me that a 25 cal version of the grendel is under development. That presumably would open up more bullet choices than the plain jane 5.56 case allows.
 
I'm considering a 25-06 for a medium game rifle and some rec target shooting. Also like that is can be used for varmint adding to the versatility. Have .223 so think could be a good wind bucking long range alternate varmint cartridge? Have a .308 right now I use for long range target and could hunt with and just would like a intermediate caliber. Rifle I'm considering is 700 CDL. Looks very nice and seems it would be great rifle for 25-06. I will reload but working on being able to do that. May or may not be able to by time get rifle. Not too long after though so figure can start with some factory loads.

Also considering 7mm-08 , .270( though so common and doesn't seem as versatile) among others. Prolly no 6.5 cm or such since I'd like a 700 , T/C or xbolt near price range of CDL if don't get CDL. Besides some varmint /target be a rifle for mule deer and antelope.

Thanks all!
 
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Lange said:
I'm considering a 25-06 for a medium game rifle and some rec target shooting. Also like that is can be used for varmint adding to the versatility. Have .223 so think could be a good wind bucket long range alternate varmint cartridge?
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Wind bucking is what I'm guessing you meant, and while I love the .25-06 the cartridge isn't a long range cartridge. Sure it will work long range, but the bullets for true long range shooting just aren't there. It's a great medium game medium range cartridge with appropriate hunting bullets. With varmint bullets it pretty much sucks as a wind bucking cartridge because BC matters more than speed.

A .223 with an 8 twist barrel such as any of the Ruger American rifles would make a better long range varmint rifle with up to 75-77 grain bullets, than a .25-06 shooting varmint bullets. Other more versatile cartridges thanr the .25-06 for what you want are .243 Win, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260 Rem. Once you get larger than the 6.5/.264 calibers you're more into the medium to big game range of bullets.
 
What do you consider a varmint bullet in the 25-06. I've used 87 grain bullets with great results. It's not a super long range rig but it's not difficult to get good accuracy at 400 yards.
 
taylorce1 said:
Wind bucking is what I'm guessing you meant, and while I love the .25-06 the cartridge isn't a long range cartridge. Sure it will work long range, but the bullets for true long range shooting just aren't there. It's a great medium game medium range cartridge with appropriate hunting bullets. With varmint bullets it pretty much sucks as a wind bucking cartridge because BC matters more than speed.

A .223 with an 8 twist barrel such as any of the Ruger American rifles would make a better long range varmint rifle with up to 75-77 grain bullets, than a .25-06 shooting varmint bullets. Other more versatile cartridges thanr the .25-06 for what you want are .243 Win, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260 Rem. Once you get larger than the 6.5/.264 calibers you're more into the medium to big game range of bullets.
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Your saying even with the larger bullet and grains its not going to be more wind resistant than .223? I am actually kinda torn between 25-06 and .243 honestly, but thought 25-06 might be a bit better for big muleys and 25-06 seems to outperform it a little yet still be a varmint option(even if it may have some not ideal things doing so).

Also yeah I get due to the lower BC of .25 cal bullets also its not really a long range caliber for target either but another consideration also for any hunting is mostly would be shooting within 500 yards as well. Anything over that would be just some experimenting or messing around but not practical.

is 7mm-08 good for varmint dual use like 6.5 or .260? Since im considering that chambering as well.
 
The only thing that makes a 223 "better" than a 25-06 for varmints is the low cost of shooting lots of rounds.

My 25-06 is a Ruger #1V. My 223 bolt gun is a Kimber Longmaster Classic. Both are high quality guns and I reload for both so I get the best of the best from both guns. If it's windy the 25 cal outshines the 22 cal by a wide margin. If you need to reach out beyond 300 yards with authority, the 25 cal outshines the 22 cal by a wide margin. There is really no comparison nor should there be with that large a span in caliber.

My 243 Win was a CZ 550, very nice gun, I put lots and lots of rounds down the barrel of both the 243 and 25-06. In my opinion the 243 did not compete well with the 25-06 so I sold it. There may not be as broad a selection of bullets in 25 cal as there is in 24 cal but the ones that are available are outstanding.
 
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