python without rifleing

B

brokemf

Inactive
Hi i have a silly question i just got a python from my father that he never really shot and i went out and shot it the other day and the bullets were tumbling i thought it was wierd so i took it home cleaned it with a lewis lead remover and looked down the barrel and to my suprize there is no rifling in the barrel dont know how that happen i called colt and they said to send it in to be fixed but a guy at work said it might be a collector piece like a double struck coin so i thought i would check here before i sent it in anyway interested in what you all might think thanks for your time AJ
 
A: You need to keep using the Lewis Lead remover.
B: Its a very short barreled shotgun and accidently came from the factory that way. Doubtful, but, I once saw a shipment of S&W Model 66's the same way.
C: Lord only knows why, somebody drilled out the rifling so it could shoot snake shot better. (I have seen wierder things)
 
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If it doesn't have any rifling, it's an NFA firearm, which means that you shouldn't posses it w/o a tax stamp. To my understanding smoothbore pistols are classified as AOW's ( Any Other Weapon ) by the BATFE, and their ownership is regulated. The exception being muzzle loaders. So I'd first try to confirm that there's no rifling, and that what you're seeing isn't simply the result of leading. And if it turns out that there is no rifling, you're going to want to speak to a knowledgeable party about how to handle the possession issue.
 
I'm pretty sure Pythons shipped with a test target. If the smooth bore is at groove diameter (.357"), the rifling was removed. See if a .357" bullet will drop through, or can be easily pushed trough. If it really is an unrifled barrel (land diameter), your pressures are going to be sky-high as you push way oversized bullets through it.
 
Don't they have to be over .50 caliber?
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Do you mean in order to be an AOW?

If so, no, they don't. The NFA definition of a "shotgun" per 26 USC § 5845(d) says "a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder..." (Emphasis mine.) IOW if it's a smoothbore firearm but it isn't configured to be fired from the shoulder, it's not a shotgun, and is therefore an AOW regardless of caliber.

FWIW before you ask, .45/.410 revolvers such as the Taurus Judge, S&W Governor, and Thunder-5 get around this because they have rifled barrels.
 
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Did your father buy this used? Its not uncommon for a gun to be used in a crime, then someone takes a dremel to the rifling to remove it for ballistic fingerprinting.
 
possiblities... and drawbacks

#1 the rifling is still hidden underneath a really bad case of leading....
#2 it came unrifled from the factory
#3 it was altered (bored out) to a smoothbore after it left the factory'
#4 The gun has been shot so much the rifling is worn away...

#1 is likely, #2 is possible, but not likely, so are #3 & #4 (and if the gun was shot enough to wear away ALL the rifling, odds are the overall condtion will show a lot of wear. Since you didn't mention that, I doubt that's the case.

If the gun left the factory as a smoothbore, it would be a rare, and collectable gun BUT, it is also an NFA item (essentially a sawed off shotgun). Posession of such an item without the federal paperwork and tax stamp is a crime. No matter how you came to have it.

I recommend you contact a good firearms lawyer, and seek advice on the proper way to proceed. At this point, you may be legally able to send it back to Colt to get it "fixed", OR you may not have any legal option other than surrender the gun to the ATF. Or you may have an option in between.

I can't tell you. Get a lawyer, and do what they tell you. Let them deal with the ATF on your behalf, when necessary. Anything else and you risk prosecution, potentially ruinous costs for your legal defense, and ultimately, you still might lose, and be facing years in prison, huge fines, and loss of your right to own firearms, ever again.

This is not a joke, and not a minor matter. Get a firearms lawyer (the NRA may be able to recommened someone in your area), and play the hand you have been dealt.

Best case, you get to send the gun in to be fixed, no charges
Next best, you register the gun with the ATF and get to keep it, no charges
next best, you have to surrender the gun, but face no charges
worst, you face charges (and lose the gun anyway).

DO NOT DELAY, don't pretend the problem wil go away, it won't. you & your dad are potentially on the hook for some serious trouble...

Of course,if the barrel is just really badly leaded, and continued cleaning shows you that there is actually rifling, then its no big deal.

But if is a true smoothbore (no matter how it got that way), get that lawyer!

I would also recommend not discussing it further on the internet, until after you have spoken to your lawyer. Once you have resolved the situation, please come back and let us know how it went.
 
Sig got a pistol back from a CA police officer complaining of none accuracy. They found the rifling to be absent. They followed up with the owner and found out he cleans the barrel with a bore brush attached to a cleaning rod which was inserted into a power drill. Over time the P226 became a smooth bore. I'm not saying this happened in your case, it's probably lead build up.
 
I can't tell you. Get a lawyer, and do what they tell you. Let them deal with the ATF on your behalf, when necessary. Anything else and you risk prosecution, potentially ruinous costs for your legal defense, and ultimately, you still might lose, and be facing years in prison, huge fines, and loss of your right to own firearms, ever again.
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I doubt you will risk prosecution or any sort of charges. You neither purchased or altered the weapon yourself. Coming into possession of it by inheritance, by chance, isn't enough to charge you with anything. I'm not saying you are legally able to have it, you may very well need to turn it over, but my bet is Colt will fix it for you, whether its out of your pocket or theirs. If it was such a big deal and so illegal it would have thrown up a red flag with Colt and they would have said something. On another note what happens when you own an old shot out firearm, with just a little bit of rifling. So if I fire a couple thousand more rounds through the thing and the rifling is now gone i'm in possession of an illegal weapon?
 
Mere possesion IS a crime.
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Yes and no, it's not always that simple. There are plenty of cases where people have inherited their fathers, grandfathers, uncles or whoevers guns that were not registered, which is required in certain states. Owning an unregistered handgun in certain states is illegal, having your loved ones die off and left with their belongings which may very well be an unregistered handgun does not mean you will be charged with a crime or go to jail. That's assuming once they are aware the guns are not and must be registered that they must do so. Not to mention, this particular handgun for the OP was a gift. Since the OP i'm sure is aware of the situation by now, assuming he goes through the proper authorities to get it squared away, I cant see him getting charged with a crime. He did not buy the gun himself, nor did he alter it himself. He did not accept the gun from his father knowing it had no rifling, and lets just say it came from the factory that way. Does that mean the minute his father purchased it from the store and brought it home he was committing a crime, even though he had no idea the said gun had no rifling. Assuming neither his father, nor the son knew the gun had no rifling, I don't see how they committed a crime. They neither had knowledge of the rifling in the barrel nor the intent to own a gun with no rifling.
 
Drag,
In this case, mere possession IS the crime.
BATF has NO sense of humor on things like this.

The gun, if it HAS NO RIFLING, is illegal to possess by their standards & definition & policy.

They won't care if it was "accidentally" obtained in that condition, if it comes to their attention.
It is not worth gambling over.

Get the rifling issue resolved. If just leaded get it cleaned, if no rifling dump it.

Denis
 
DPris, if we assume that BATFE is determined to prosecute over something like that, and I really don't think they would, then your advice is very bad. Depending on what you mean by "dump it", you are either advising the OP to sell an unregistered NFA firearm, which is another crime in itself and futher involves making a third person a criminal, or you are advising him to destroy the gun which would be compounding a felony by destroying evidence.

The only thing a possessor of contraband material can do legally is to contact BATFE or the police and abandon (surrender) the item. To advise any other approach shows either ignorance or a desire to get someone even deeper in trouble.

Jim
 
thanks for the input guys colt should have it today or tommorow i did clean that thing like no buddys business i did measure the inside diamiter of the barrel i belive it was.348 so i am glad i was only shooting a lite wadcutter load. And thanks for the legal advise not sure who was right but i dont want to find outagain thanks for the info AJ
 
.348" is about the bore diameter of a typical tight Colt .38 barrel.
Sure sounds like they may have skipped a step.

I would talk to Colt about it before I freaked out and hired a lawyer or threw myself on the mercy of the federal bureaucracy.
 
A friend of mine that had a similar issue eons ago, with another manufacturer, received his gun back all fixed without the suspect barrel. Had to pay shipping to, but not back. If it was an error from the manufacturer, their normally happy to make things right. If not, I'm sure they will contact you about paying for the restoration.
 
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