Push feed vs controlled round

"The worst place for the shoulder of the case to be is setting against the shoulder of the chamber when the trigger is pulled."

That's 180 off from everything I've ever read or heard, these last 70 years. Headspace is the gap between the bolt face and the base of the cartridge when the shoulder of case is against the shoulder of the chamber.

I bought my Sako and my Wby MkV in 1971. Both push-feed. Never short-stroked. Killed a bunch of deer, mostly while cross-country walking or else sneaky-snaking. Only targeting has been on my front-porch bench rest for sight-in or load-development.

I've messed around with Springfields, Enfields and 98s. Never saw where CF vs. PF was worth worrying about.
 
Combo does both!

I had traded for a Winchester Model 70 in 300 WSM several years ago. This model had the black synthetic stock and mat finish. Overall, a decent rifle. What was unusual about this rifle was the extractor and feed system. For the world this rifle looked like a push fed. However, the ejector was fixed working through a slot in the bolt face. Cartridges would feed up through magazine under the small extractor in the right locking lug. This feature was advertised by Winchester at one time. A combo push controlled feed. It worked that way. The rifles I have seen with this system have been in WSM calibers.

As an aside, do not fall into the voodoo reloading or headspace discussion. It gets deep fast. :eek: What works is, "You're probably right..." Next, you move back onto the topic. Don't buy into his crap!
 
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It seems we have a well-beaten dead horse here, but I want to get my lick in. For me, it's all down to preference. I mostly have CRF because it is what I prefer. Don't tell anyone, but I do have a push feed M70 22-250 in my safe. It is very accurate and I wouldn't hesitate to put it up against a colony of vicious prairie dogs.

It's like trucks. I've had Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Nissans. My preference is the F-150.

Jerry
 
BBarn
Now that toothless guy removing the checkering is an image that's stuck in my mind , thanks .

F. Guffey
.016 clearance using the feeler gage .014 for a .002 clearance . That's true if your bottomed die to shellholder is giving you a .016 size . Don't most dies set from die bottomed to shellholder oversize the case .

As for push or control feed, in a combat conditions I could see the control feed would be better. Other then that both are just as good .
 
After collecting a bunch of 98 Mausers, Springfields and old Winchester model 70s i fail to see anything special about controlled round feed.
 
F. Guffey
.016 clearance using the feeler gage .014 for a .002 clearance . That's true if your bottomed die to shellholder is giving you a .016 size . Don't most dies set from die bottomed to shellholder oversize the case .
Click to expand...

No, when the die is adjusted to the shell holder the die is adjusted to return the case to minimum length or as the die says "full length size". 'WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?" The chamber is go-gage length; when dealing with the 30/06 chamber we are talking about .005" clearance between the shoulder of the case and the shoulder of the chamber.

Beyond that we are talking about verifying the die and shell holder. Again: I have two sets of C&H dies from El Monte, California. The dies came in a fiber box with the instructions on the bottom of the box. Part of the instructions instruct the user to use C&H dies with shell holders with a height of .125". I added deck to the height to read deck height of the shell holder.

Why? Reloaders were claiming the manufacturer of the die had to match the manufacturer of the shell holder. That problem came to an end in the late '50s.
RCBS and Pacific had no ideal the other existed even thought one manufactured shell holders/rams for the other.

F. Guffey
 
F Guffey
Thank You , even though it's off topic I have a question for you and would like to know what you would do . I measured my 308 chamber with a Go Gage an a .002 shim using a stripped bolt for closure . The Go Gage as you know is 1.630 adding .002 shim to 1.632 . My fired cases are 1.629 from expansion . I only do benchrest shooting with this rifle a Remington 700 . What would size the cases too ?

Chris
 
As long as we're on the subject of push feed vs controlled round feed, I'd like a good recipe for banana bread.
I do love banana bread. :)
Denis
 
Hey guys I know I was off topic , may deserve a slap on the wrist OK now move on .

Chris
Still waiting to hear back from F.Guffey
 
I love a little friendly banter, but this is becoming a lube thread!

CanMan.jpg


Back to the OP....I find it that both are applied to the same applications...both designs are being matured....

All this while things like firing pin safeties or low energy pre-cocking technology are ignored....I do wish the firing pin locking safeties were more wide spread...
 
I don't know how much more maturation we can reasonably expect.
We've got variations on the classic Remington 700 with improved extractors, we've got three-lugged push feed designs, and the Mauser in modern form has been slightly upgraded by beveling its extractor to slip around a case rim on direct chamber loading.

The original Mauser design typically could not be direct loaded.

Dunno how much more we can expect in progression with either boltgun platform.
Denis
 
And then Savage came out with the floating bolt face . Something new to me but control an push feed I'm sure will be around forever .
 
Much like Striker vs Hammer fired pistols.

I would never have guess anyone would like a hard to pull striker when you can have a good revolver like feel.

As long as it does what you want and like how it does it, that is bottom line.
 
I don't know how much more maturation we can reasonably expect.
Click to expand...


That's hard to say, and honestly, change is always promoted as maturation or improvement, but change is quite often done just for the sake of change. Pillar bedding and fiberglass stocks were great. Not so much the 788. Remington made it with three bolt sets, what was it, 4 separate lugs per set?

Ooopsie, the bolt and lugs were at the back of the action, which failed to hold the thing solidly and make the action as rigid as a front locking system. The bolts supposedly were far stronger with all of the tabs, rather than just a couple of monolithic lugs. Testing of the things with prussian blue showed that even after firing a few rounds, the tabs weren't making contact in some actions.


Improvement is incremental and on a curve, with diminishing returns. What new design features can we genuinely expect over the next ten years that will Truly change the face of the average shooter's guns?


from wikipedia

By Hardwarefreak - Fujitsu digital camera, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=38634047
1280px-Remington_788_bolt_and_lugs.png

By Hardwarefreak - Fujitsu digital camera, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=38634047

I'm working my way through this book, in it the author claims that a machinist was capable of measuring to one-millionth of an inch in the 1800s.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072BFJB3Z/ref=docs-os-doi_0

Not true. He had one piece of equipment calibrated to that degree, he could not possibly have truly measured and returned an accurate measure of that minuteness. That's a fraction of the size of a human blood cell.

I guess that my point is that skepticism is the one most important process to finding the truth.
 
Push Feed or CRF....off topic

CRF: I had a rifle built up on a WW2 German action. The gunsmith modified the extractor so the extractor would snap over the rim into the groove. Works great. There has been no occasion to feed cartridges that way. On most Mauser's you can push the tail of the extractor. This lifts the claw enough to all catch the cartridge. On my CZ 550 King Kong could not move that CRF extractor. On the net you will get these stories. My.....rifle accidentally discharged as the bolt handle came off and the extractor failed. These problems became an epidemic on the net.:eek: Push feed is fine as is CRF.
 
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