pursuing robbery suspects

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Yeah, I know Glenn. I'm just sick of hearing don't resist criminals, give em what they want, stand down. It might overpenetrate, miss, be a drunk neighbor, or a girl scout. Then the law goes after the real victim. Wronged by the law? Offer no resistance, let em have thier way, go and beg mercy from the court. And it's always for the children...:barf:

We citizens are stuck between a rock n a hard place with LEO's and thugs. When we do nothing, we lose on both fronts. It's not right. The worst thing is that some of us citizens buy into it and espouse standing down as a proper thing to do. Maybe the guy went too far and maybe he didn't.
 
Excuse me - the issue was not resistance. Why do folks keep banging this drum?

The issue was engaging in a high speed chase that had the probability of harming innocents.

One has to look at the totality of possible outcomes. As Capt. C said, a civilian chasing armed criminals puts others at significant risk.

Risk you own butt but not everyone else on the highway.

I have no problem with resisting but being stupid is another thing.
 
Lots of cops get hurt or killed during pursuits
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My neighbor growing up had no dad, he was killed chasing bank robbers in Omaha in 1961, his pic is on the wall of the Police Union hall with the others killed in the line of duty.

Guy robs ya, leaves you alive, so you chase him and he shoots at ya and kills others. Hmmmmm I see it as both have a little fault here, not all but some. He is lucky he didnt get shot.

If anyone steals from me and runs, I'll be in pursuit and shooting if necessary.
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Another scary thought. Old days houses were not as close together. Not as many folks around, real life isnt a western. Be responsible.
 
This is a pretty tough one...if the guy hadn't pursued them, the robbers would have likely not been shooting while making their getaway right? To a reasonable person that's a fair statement right?

So did his actions result in escalating the situation and exposing himself, the robbers, and others to injury and death? I think a reasonable answer is yes. I don't care what happened beforehand, his act of chasing led to death. It should be reckless endangerment or something similar, he did what he did with no malice or pre-meditation but we are all held to be responsible for our actions. The other guys get charged with murder during the commission of a robber...maybe a capital crime depending on how much was stolen.

Chasing and resisting/self defense are not in the same category. For all the good he did a description of the car and a license plate number would have been far better. Should he have been armed and stopped the robbery in progress? I would if I owned a business dealing with cash...I'd like to think I would anyway.

I've said several times already...I'm really afraid that if I am ever in a situation where I have to use my handgun for self-defense I am more afraid of some of our resident cowboys than the BG's...I hope I am never around when one of them is chasing a mugger or robber through a crowded area while shooting a 1911 in one hand, a S&W J-Frame in the other, with at least one polymer subcompact in a SOB holster ready for use next.
 
I've been in pursuits. Have you seen the Cop shows showing pursuits? They are all hairy! None of them are safe and they all put lives in danger. The street is a rough place.

There is no such thing as a safe pursuit. There will always be a kid somewhere during it or people on the sidewalk. Police can back off when an air unit is available but sooner or later you have to close in and take the suspect down. No fare saying the guy just might have a roach in his pocket or be driving without a license because he just as well might have kidnapped your daughter. I say chase down the bad guys and be relentless. I'll chance the colateral damage in order to get them off the street.
 
Criminals shoot at me and hit someone else and I'm responsible because I'm chasing them after they have stolen from me? That's bull.
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I agree. The store owner did not make the criminals start shooting. That was a decision made on their part. That being said, I don't believe he made a wise choice in chasing the robbers. Although, quite a few crimes like this go unsolved. The police investigate and say that they will be in touch, and usually that is all a store owner will hear about it. Maybe he felt that was a good enough reason.
 
I could well be wrong... if so blame a Volusia County sheriffs deputy. I was told that in florida a citizen has the right to pursue and detain a person involved in a felony crime. If that is the case the store owner was within his rights. He did not shoot to defend his property so it is not a castle doctrine dispute. If we do have the right to exceed the speed limit than he was wrong but since no one recorded his speed he is not chargeable for speeding.
Brent
 
I'll chance the colateral damage in order to get them off the street.
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How very brave of you. Tell that to the family of the victims of that "collateral damage".
Resisting the robbery itself was one thing, but playing "ADAM 12" or "COPS" is not what he should have done. Too many gun owners keep trying to play "Rambo" and prove they "won't stand for it"!
 
Geez, there's a lot of crap in here. Somebody please pass me the shovel.

I'll state my viewpoint, and mine only. Some of you may agree with me, some won't, I don't care. I will do what I have to do to face myself in the mirror each day when I shave.

The store owner was wrong to pursue the pieces of human dreck. He needlessly endangered others, resulting in an innocent bystander being needlessly killed. His time to fight back was when they were in his store. Once they turned and left the store they were no longer a threat to him.

Some of the crap I see spouted online makes me want to :barf:. It sounds more like a teenage locker room after Gym Class than reasoned and intelligent discussion about concealed carry and the responsibility we have to society if we are going to carry a gun in public.

Biker
 
It's hard to tell ethnicity from the name, but he's more than likely asian. When I was in the LA Riots in '92 (I was with one of the two Marine Battalions sent up there), the Korean store owners were the only ones that didn't need our help. They were patrolling the areas around thier homes and businesses, and had OP's (for lack of a better term) on the roofs of their stores. They were almost as well armed as we were. End result: they didn't get messed with in the chaos that was erupting all around them. I felt very safe in their area of influence.
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I'm originally from L.A. and we all felt safe once you guys made the drive up the 5. With that said, Koreatown was a full on free fire zone during the first couple days of the riot. I don't fault those guys for shooting back in any way, but that was a different situation than this. In times of civil insurrection the rules change a bit.

I was involved in a nother similar thread last week that got shut down, but had the same gist. People think that in the name of "resisting crime" anything and everything is ok to do and no matter what happens only the criminal is responsible for any and every decision made by every person involved. At the point in which someone chooses to escalate the situation beyond what is required to defend your life (or property in many cases), the culpability for someone getting hurt is shifted at least in part to the person who went overboard.

That doesn't excuse the criminal for his actions in any way. But it does no give us carte blanche to play Rambo. Part of the responsibility of a gun owner is to understand how we can excercise control over a situation by how we choose to react or to not react in any given situation. Here the guy had control over the situation when he chose to escalate it and it resulted in an innocent death. He did not pull the trigger but his actions had a direct connection to someone getting killed and it did not have to happen. One the criminals fled it and he chose to pursue the ball went to his court, and IMO he has some liability.
 
"If somebody's robbing somebody with a firearm you let them take the money and leave. This was totally an unnecessary death. It does not justify what these idiots did during the robbery, but the store owner should be held responsible," said Richstone. "You can't be chasing after people with guns." Castillo's mother, girlfriend and other relatives drove up from Miami to support him in court. They declined to talk about him after the hearing.
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Poor little bank robber, just trying to feed his kids, and some idiot got in his way. Totally ignoring the fact that armed robbers used guns to rob the store owner in the first place.

When did we get to the point in this country when an attorney could espouse this kind of crap? "Just give them what they want, and maybe they won't hurt you."
 
Some of you should consult your attorney before you think about getting involved or resorting to violence. This way you would be protected from making a mistake.

For those of you who think calling 911 is the answer, think again. Help might show up 20 minute later if you are lucky. By that time the bad boys are long gone and innocent people could be dead. I'm not saying every incident requires a deadly response but if you want to get anything done, most likely you will have to be the one who takes care of business. Some people are fed up with crime and I don't blame them for taking action. Injuries that result should be the fault of the felon starting it.
 
Unless they've snatched up my kid, no way am I getting in a high-speed pursuit of any criminal. I have not the training or the inclination. I'm at that dangerous age where I'm still young enough to want to go toe-to-toe with some bad guy (and just old enough to have my derriere handed to me), but no way in God's earth would I do what Mr. Koh did.

Still, the scumbag criminals are the ones who loosed the rounds. Mr. Saloman didn't die in a car crash arising from the ill-advised high speed chase. He was murdered by the robbery suspects fleeing the scene.
 
I'll chance the colateral damage in order to get them off the street.
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You post as if you are LEO. You would break policy and accept "collateral damage"? I will let my cousins know of this, they are LEO here in Omaha and may want to let a super know a LEO is posting this kind of statement on the internet.




I wish we had a Rambo in Omaha at the mall today before all those innocent people were killed
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You in Omaha? My office is in Old Mill, I can see westroads from here. Bad situation. What would a Rambo do? First instinct is to run and hide as all did there. CC is just gettin on here, not many that would risk death to confront a shooter with a rifle.
 
Any time a Police Officer chases or confronts a felon, there is a chance of colateral damage and some innocent person could get hurt. The only way to erase that chance would be for LEOS to allow them to escape and not confront them. Watch the show about police pursuits on TV and you will see what I mean. As I said before, the street is not always a friendly place and agressive action is often needed.

I would not have any respect for a law enforcement agency that would not be agressive in chasing down crooks. I wouldn't want them protecting my neighborhood.
 
Never pursue the robbers. When I was a prosecutor, we all always looked to see if, at the time of the shooting, the shooter was in imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury. If you chase down a robber, you are now the aggressor and will end up being charged with attempted murder or worse.

As to the incident of the bullet entering the child's room, it goes to show you how important it is to recognize where your bullet is going to go if it misses its intended target. A person using a sidearm or other weapon must always consider what is behind and to the sides of the target. Otherwise, an innocent may be seriously injured or killed.
 
How tough a guy you are to be willing to accept collateral damage!!! You must be one bad dude! in 91 there was an army A team holed up in a spider hole watching a road junction by day and running recon at night. During the day a 9yr old girl discovered them. They were under orders to kill anyone with thier silenced 9mm and drag them into the spider hole with them. Being in the remote desert they would not have been discovered had they dont that. They took the high road and let her go. She alerted the people wiht her and soon they were under heavy attack. They stayed and fought it out untill they could get air cover and get pulled out. Several were seriously wounded. They to a man would do it the same all over again. Collateral Damage what a cool word you use. Is there a time and place for it? you bet! I caused some myself but that was when there was no other choice in a war.
 
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