Purchasing Firearms; Are we asking to be Registered?

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Yo, guys! It STILL ain't time to shoot anybody, maybe less now than ever. The current case (what's his face? Emerson?) which has already been ruled a violation of the 2nd has simply GOT to go to the Supreme Court, and they have very little choice how to rule. For the moment we need to be absolutely certain that they do not run out of funds (ala the 1939 case w. Miller) before the matter is concluded. THEN, if our rights are clearly being violated, we can talk about the revolution, and the Supreme Court is gonna recognize that distinct possibility.

Somebody who knows the Web and computers better than I do start figuring where I send my check. I have already sent a missive to the NRA on the subject.

Other than that, I went to a gun show some years back with my sons, and one of them was carrying my pistol in his pocket (he was underage for possession, WGAS) when someone behind a counter said "hey! I'll give you $XXX for that." Cash changed hands, firearm handed over, I have no idea who that guy was nor do I care. I suspect the same thing has happened to all my other firearms. Darn, Mr. Fedman, I sure wish I could help you...

Before you kill and die, consider clogging the courts and the jails with your OWN pristine (and still breathing) body. If you think that those who start a civil war will survive to see the result, you are living in a dream world.

Whoops! 'Scuse me, I was just distracted by a call from CCRKBA, there went another $150. If you ain't contributing/complaining to your congresscritter, don't even bother to tell me how you'll "stand beside me", because I know I'll be alone when the time comes.

Larry
 
Larry P...

Settle down fella and re-read my posts. You'll never hear anything about "civil war" or "revolution" from PR. I prefer to just go around the system of yokes, collars, and chains at this point. I carry a pocket size copy of the "Declaration of Independence" and "Constitution of the United States of America", and reference it often. I don't see anything in there that says the federal government can infringe upon my (or your) RKBA.

When the time is right, we will all know what we have to do to keep our country from falling head long into tyranny. That will be the time we feed the hogs.
 
Some time back we had a similar post and it seemed most folks here had either lost or sold all of their firearms they had ever purchased with 4473 papers on them.

I found this unbelieveable until just the other day. I had a chance to do a little fishing off the Texas coast and thought I would take along all my toys and give them a good cleaning if the fish weren't biting. Well my boat got swamped by a large freighter and I lost EVERYTHING. Can you believe it! I am so depressed I don't think I will ever purchase another firearm. And to make matters worse my safe had been stolen when I got back home. But it an old one and since I had nothing to put in it I figured it wasn't even worth the trouble to report the theft. I couldn't believe the safe was the only thing taken. I hope my disaster does not cancel my TFL membership as I would still like to discuss my departed old friends as if they were still around. Sniff! Sniff!

Paul - One item I've always enjoyed carrying with me is a quote from a gentleman long deceased that goes as follows, " This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can excerise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."

RKBA! (even if they've been taken to their final resting place) more Sniffs!
 
Paul Revere,

You said, "No State can (legally) enact a law that violates an American citizen's unalienable Right. Of which the 2nd Amendment is a part thereof."

I agree whole heartedly. One BIG problem comes when there are those too ignorant of our constitution, too spineless, or just doesn't care that goes out and enforces those laws. The justice system, under same pretense or personal agenda, rules upon those unconstitutional laws, and the poor decent law abiding citizen is ripped from his family and placed in a small room with Bubba and his girls for a very long time. I'm not disagreeing with you.....just making an observation. I don't know of any simple solutions at this point, however I believe that many of us here are doing more than simply complaining, as some might assume. I am grateful that we can have this discussion as without becomming well informed, no good decisions can be made. I for one would be happy to have you guys on my side when the chips are down.

robert


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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
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"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ
 
Good Evening Everyone-

Paul Revere, this is an outstanding essay and the follow-up points are just as well thought-out and interesting.

It heartens me to see that we (as TFL participants) can speak in terms of "futures" without people complaining of "paranoia" or "black helicopter watchers" in their midst.

Thanks,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Blue Jay...

I appreciate your compliment. Thanks.

I'll assume what you meant by "futures", was that this topic deals with OUR future. It does, however, actions outlined herein need to begin IMMEDIATELY!

Take a look around. Eventhough gun crimes are at an all time LOW, we are being attacked from all angles. The current pending legislation in Washington, D.C. and many states is indicative of a need to call for immediate action. The most threatening piece of these pending laws is the closing of the "gun show loophole". What that effectively does, is eliminates the ability of private individuals to have a market place to buy/sell/trade their private property without first submitting to the NICS registration tyranny. In addition, it even covers the connections made at such shows to prevent transactions being completed outside the show grounds at some later date between private parties. It is clear that all measures to prevent such illegal legislation is failing dramaticly. We need to take action that lines with "non-compliance".

This is NOT a topic about "paranoia" as you said. And eventhough I've read alot about claims of "black helicopter" sightings, train loads of UN vehicles being brought into our country's interior, and detainment camps being constructed, I am merely swallowing hard and digesting that information into my overall assessment of our current situation. Whether these claims have any shred of validity is not the issue here. Although I believe it would be both naive and careless to completely discount such claims, given our current situation that has clearly put us in "code yellow".

I can promise that your continued loyal compliance to the many un-constitutional gun control laws today, will be viewed with great regret in the years to come. And you may or may not remember the advice I've outlined herein at that time of great regret, but you CAN take action today. The process begins by forcing yourself onto a line of strict "non-compliance". Set yourself free from the chains of the paper trails that lead to your private property.

Remember that those in political offices have taken an oath to protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution (so help them God). This includes a solemn promise to NOT infringe upon your RKBA. This is your permission slip to ignore ALL un-Constitutional legislation and mandates.

What is Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness if we are wearing chains? Throw them off...be a free man.
 
Good Evening Everyone-

Paul Revere, my words are sincerely meant to be a compliment!
smile.gif


It is your excellent ability to raise awareness towards controversial topics without the undercurrent of "paranoia" or "black helicopters" that makes you an interesting and inspirational poster to TFL.

I'm certainly on the "same sheet of music" with you to carefully evaluate all sides of the story....and certainly not to discount anyone's viewpoints without exhaustive analysis.

Yes, in terms of "futures," I was speaking in terms of what we as gunowners and patriots have to look forward to in the years ahead.

Thanks again....

~ Blue Jays ~

[This message has been edited by Blue Jays (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
I read through this entire thread and wonder if I missed something or are or the posters missing something? I saw only two suggested remedies, non-compliance and an implied use of the vote.

Dennis implied using the vote and told the truth why. I second his suggestion and state it more plainly, vote third party. Yeah, I hear all the screams of fear and politico induced parrot echos, but you ain't gonna change democrats and/or republicans by continuing to vote for them and begging them to honor their oath of office. And yeah I know you have a very good representative. Paul is the only Representative I know of who is worth his salt.We have until November to try to get the word out. So tell everyone you know to vote third party. It could save your Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness and your children's too.

My Congressman, Asa Hutchinson, has a discussion board (the only elected in WDC that does) and I invite you to post there. Be forewarned there a few regular socialist posting there. They believe the Constitution is a old outdated worthless rag. http://plato1.aristotle.net/asa/ubb/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

Also, I have a very good copy of the Constitution with interpretation prepared by Joanne Campbell that I will email to anyone who wants it. I have found nothing with Joanne's work that I disagree with. ahampton@tcainternet.com

I wish you all Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Allan
 
Maybe I missed it somewhere in all the above posts as I only have time to skim them, so forgive me if I am asking something that was already addressed.

It was mentioned that FFLs hold onto the 4473s 'til they go out of business. My question is: what happens (or at least is supposed to happen by law) to the 4473s when a given FFL goes out of business? Are the forms forwarded to ATF or someone like that, or are the forms destroyed?

Thanks.
 
Paul Revere - You are the man.

I am with you all the way on almost everything you post.

Viva La Resistance!!!!

------------------
Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
They other side of a cash purchase is now you have committed the felony of possesion of an unregistered handgun in MD.

If you get discovered, both the seller & the buyer get disarmed permanently.

The only cash gun is a cache only gun.

dZ
 
In my state (Georgia) private sales are legal - just make sure buyer is a resident and that you have no reason to believe he is not qualified to purchase.

So hypothetically, my buddy and I each buy a Glock 23, fill out the FFL, then sell to each other. Paper trail ends?
 
CassidyGT...

Like fine wine, they'll get much better with age, just stay tuned. Thank you sir.

dz...

Again...what's up with MD? I'll bet that none of that crap would stand up in court!

Hawkman...

The process my friend, is avoiding the FFL 4473/NICS tyranny from the get go. Theoretically, the 4473/NICS registration would first identify "gun owner(s)". That would include your address and what they could expect to find at the place you claimed was your residence (ie, 3 handguns, 2 rifles, 4 shotguns). The nicey nice approach would be two uniformed officers coming to your door with a detailed list, "requesting" either; particular "registered" firearm(s), or some sort of documentation showing transfer of said firearms. The not so nicey nice approach (and most likely) would be a no-knock storm trooper thug squad in the middle of the night DEMANDING every firearm you supposedly registered. By the way, the so-called SOP for this drill would be if they found nothing, you'd be arrested and detained as a suspect anyway.

For tactical defense, may I suggest renting a movie called, "Safe House" starring Patrick Stewart. Note how he prepares for no-knock entries...and be prepared to do the same. Also note his gun closet. Now that's hardware!
 
For tactical defense, may I suggest renting a movie called, "Safe House" starring Patrick Stewart. Note how he prepares for no-knock entries...and be prepared to do the same. Also note his gun closet. Now that's hardware!

[/B][/QUOTE]

That is one of my favorite movies! I'm trying to duplicate his hardware
smile.gif


Hawkman
 
Hawkman: good to see you thinking-- *BUT*--

If they show up to confiscate Glock serial # xxx5, I don't think they will walk away empty handed just because you are in possesion of Glock serial # xxx6.

BTW: If it ever gets as far as door-step confiscation we are WRONG! But we'll let it.. trust me.
 
Jordan...

There's a lovely event in a book I've been recommending (Patriots, Surviving the Coming Collapse, by James Wesley Rawles), where the UN allied forces are rolling into the town in Idaho where our main characters are held up in their hidey hole. Our guys zipped out ahead of the invasion into the surrounding mountains/national forest. The owner of the retreat stayed behind in the LP/OP with a set of binos and his favorite control panel "Mr. Destructo". As something like 36 UN berets blasted down his fortified front door and entered in search of goodies, Mr. Destructo came to life, sending a surge of current through 500 yards of field wire from a claymore klacker to several well placed blasting caps pushed into several sticks of TNT, pressed into several large gasoline containers...click, click, click....BOOOOOM! GooBye.

Now that's justice!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Revere:
"gun show loophole". What that effectively does, is eliminates the ability of private individuals to have a market place to buy/sell/trade their private property without first submitting to the NICS registration tyranny. In addition, it even covers the connections made at such shows to prevent transactions being completed outside the show grounds at some later date between private parties. It is clear that all measures to prevent such illegal legislation is failing dramaticly. We need to take action that lines with "non-compliance".

Remember that those in political offices have taken an oath to protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution (so help them God). This includes a solemn promise to NOT infringe upon your RKBA. This is your permission slip to ignore ALL un-Constitutional legislation and mandates.

What is Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness if we are wearing chains? Throw them off...be a free man.[/B][/quote]

Paul Revere,

Maybe this Q is too sensitive for a public forum. Please email me if so. I have been wondering for years HOW in the world a gun purchase can be made without leaving a paper trail? I can see that one can buy a used one from a private individual cash and carry. But all of the places I've shoped at require ID, forms, NIC, etc. before even selling used guns. Is there any new gun or at least reciever "loop-hole" that would not leave the citizen confiscators with a person's name, address, SS #, etc?
Email: equalizerplus@netscape.net


------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
---------------------------
"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ
 
EQUALIZER...

"All the places you shop"???? Boyo boy, you need to look a bit farther than your nose. Yes private to private only.

Allow your creative juices to flow, and you'll be amazed at what a clean, decently dressed person with a wad of cash in his/her pocket can buy these days without a trail. I'm not talking about breaking any laws either. Just use your noggin!

[This message has been edited by Paul Revere (edited April 24, 2000).]
 
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