Purchase from Private Seller using FFL

[MtnMike1]

Thanks for the help guys. I decided to buy new from an online retailer. Just a few dollars more but a lot more confidence.

 

[wgsigs]

I apologize for the hijack, but this thread and the responses raised a few questions for me, even though I have had several internet purchases.

First, someone mentioned the FFL entering the gun in his book. Is this a requirement when he first receives the gun, or when he completes the transfer? Is there a grace period like 48hrs or 72hrs if it is related to the receipt of the gun? Can the local FFL "refuse" the gun (not complete the transfer) and send it back within the grace period (if there is one), especially if the buyer decides the gun is not up to his expectations (not shipping damage) after a visual inspection at the FFL and assuming he has reached an agreement with the seller? I am assuming the buyer will have to pay the costs for the return shipment.

 

[Snyper]

First, someone mentioned the FFL entering the gun in his book. Is this a requirement when he first receives the gun, or when he completes the transfer? Is there a grace period like 48hrs or 72hrs if it is related to the receipt of the gun? Can the local FFL "refuse" the gun (not complete the transfer) and send it back within the grace period (if there is one), especially if the buyer decides the gun is not up to his expectations (not shipping damage) after a visual inspection at the FFL and assuming he has reached an agreement with the seller? I am assuming the buyer will have to pay the costs for the return shipment.

He can refuse the shipment without opening the package, and send it back that way

Otherwise, it MUST be logged in to his A&D book

Basically, if a firearm is on his premises without the owner, and NOT tagged/marked as his personal property (not for sale), it's supposed to be logged into the book

The sellers FFL has logged it "out" to him, so he MUST log it as coming in

There is no "grace period" for the dealer, but there's nothing to stop you from making arrangements with the seller for an inspection period, although it would be nearly impossible to really do anything other than LOOK at the gun without doing a transfer.

A dealer couldn't let you take it out of the store without completing all the paperwork and BG checks

 

[carguychris]

In addition to what Snyper wrote, in the interest of being thorough...

First, someone mentioned the FFL entering the gun in his book. Is this a requirement when he first receives the gun, or when he completes the transfer? Is there a grace period like 48hrs or 72hrs if it is related to the receipt of the gun?

There is a grace period for recording acquisitions and dispositions. It's spelled out in 27 CFR § 478.125(d) and summarized in the ATF FAQ:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-records-required.html

Q: How much time does a dealer have to record acquisitions and dispositions of firearms in his or her “bound book?”

A: Generally, licensees have to enter the acquisition or purchase of a firearm by the close of the next business day after the acquisition or purchase and shall record sales or other dispositions within 7 days.

However, if commercial records containing the required information are available for inspection and are separate from other commercial documents, dealers have 7 days from the time of receipt to record the receipt in the “bound book.”

If a disposition is made before the acquisition has been entered in the “bound book, the acquisition entry must be made at the same time as the disposition entry.
[27 CFR 478.125]

However, Snyper is correct that any and every firearm formally received by the dealer MUST be recorded in the bound book. The grace period only affects when the record must be made- not if.

[Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor.]

 

[wgsigs]

Thank you Snyper and carguychris. I was curious because of a couple of experiences I had.

In the first, the FFL I was using "threatened" (the seller) to send the gun back because there was no kind of identification from the non-FFL seller with the gun. I believe the seller faxed a copy of his driver's license. I didn't know if it was just this FFL's policy to CYA, or some legal requirement. He also mentioned to me that he had a limited amount to do the transfer or he would have to send the gun back. I think he mentioned something about entering or not entering the gun in his book.

In the second situation, the FFL was also a gunsmith and told be there were problems with the gun and not to "accept" it. While I negotiated the return with the seller, the FFL held on to the gun at his store and sent it back after we had reached an agreement (a day or two after he got it). I didn't know when or if the gun was entered into his book.

In the first case, the gun was eventually transferred to me. In the second the gun wasn't.

Hopefully I didn't get anybody in trouble, but was wondering if these FFLs were using standard operating procedures.