Pulling Slide back to check status?

When performing any manual of arms or functions with the handgun it is desireable to always have a firing grip. There is no need to let your dominant hand leave the firing grip in order to perfom a press check/loaded chamber status check.

There are different ways of perfoming this check -
--One way is to move the support hand forward under the dustcover forward to the grasping grooves, utilizing the thumb and fingers to grip the slide and moving backwards just enough to visibly check the chamber.
--Another way is to use an overhand technique.

...both of these techniques should be followed/supported with a physical/tactel touch of the chambered round. All techniques should be able to be done in low light or no light.
--With the first technique the trigger finger can be used to slide up and into the ejection port to physically touch the chambered round or sense that there is none present.
--The second technique uses the index or middle finger of the support hand to reach down into the ejection port to check.

A chamber check should also be done at any time your weapon leaves your sight or you don't remain in physical control of it. Imagine this - you leave your weapon someplace and another person comes behind you and "thoughtfully" unchambers the round. You come back and holster, thinking the weapon is in the same condition you left it. If it leaves your sight for any amount of time, perform a press check.

Jim Crews, in his Urban Carbine manual, mentions a "crossover" technique that allows one to physically check the condition of an AR. When bringing the AR mag up to load, the support hand index finger goes over the top of the mag. With practice, one can tell which side of the mag the top round is on. Seat the mag, drop the bolt, which should chamber a round. Remove mag, and replace index finger over the top of mag again, checking to see if the top round is on the other side - the "crossover." Interesting technique, and can be done in total darkness.

EricO
 
press v pressure

Interesting. The one person I've heard use the term, and a firearms instructor at that, called it a 'pressure check.' It is 'press' check?

Funny how terms get muddled and unmuddled. Thanks for the info.

Mike
 
Pardon me, sir, but looking down the barrel of a gun to see if it's loaded strikes me as the second most dangerous way of seeing if it's loaded.

The first most dangerous, of course, is to pull the trigger.

I had a friend who owned a gun story in Kali about 15 yrears ago. Had a regular customer come in one time with a bandaged hand. Seems he wanted to see if his .22 rifle was loaded. So he put one hand over the barrel and pulled the trigger...

Your method seems only slightly less dangerous to me. Come to think of it, pulling the trigger while pointing the gun in a safe direction would be safer than looking down the barrel. At least an AD won't produce a fatality that way. Yours probably would.


The press check (performed with the weak hand supporting the weapon, master hand over the slide) is precisely what is taught at John Farnam's course. (Though that term wasn't used. Coronach, I don't know which term is correct, but I do know that terms get mangled, even by knowledgeable folks.)


And the thumb in the trigger guard was pointed out as being a frequent cause of ADs. Not a good thing.
 
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Golly, I think I might be a primitive.

PJK-9HP (Hi-Power clone).

If there is a round in the chamber, I leave the hammer cocked and the safety on.

If there is not a round in the chamber the hammer is down and the safety off.

I check it each time I pick it up and/or load it by holding it in my primary hand and sliding the slide back just enough to see brass with my off hand. Then I re-engage the safety. Point it in a safe direction. place first finger of off hand inbetween hammer and pin and pull trigger to ensure safe.

I never look down the barrel of a gun, unless I have inserted a barrel light in the chamber end to check for crud.
 
Springfield's "loaded chamber indicator"

If you don't feel comfortable doing a press-check, you could buy one of the new Springfield Armory 1911-types.

The new Springfields have a portion of the barrel that would support the case-head machined-away. You can look through this machined away area of the barrel to see if you see a cartridge case in the chamber. If you see a cartridge case, you know that the gun is loaded! (But as someone has already pointed-out, it could be an empty cartridge case! )

Also, the new Springfields come with a key lock in the mainspring housing. So if you want to, you can lock up your gun so that it can't be fired. (Just don't lose that key!)

I think that I will stick with the Colt!

-Mk.IV
 
Don't you use an "adminstrative load" over there?

Thats the way we teach teach it here, shortened to an
"admin-load" ( basically an accountants way seeing if it's loaded - all done by numbers)

1. Fully load magazine counting rounds
2. Insert magazine, cycle and load action
3. With draw magazine, and load extra round - only can do if round has been picked and loaded in chamber.
4. Insert fully loaded magazine.

Off to work knowing you have full magazine and one in chamber.

Been using this method for a number of years without trouble and this is what we teach.

Anybody else had a problem with this method, I'd like to hear?

Thanks
 
The above method may take time and be longer but it has to be better than some of the other methods posted.;)

Still got 10 fingers and toes and no third eye!!!!!!!:D
 
Oink,

That is the way I load a gun, but when I pick one up that stays loaded (basically all my handguns save the scoped, long-barrelled revolver), I still check it to make sure that the ammo gremlins haven't spirited the round from the chamber.
 
That is the basic drill we were taught except that removal of the mag on a charged weapon is done while the weapon is holstered.

The extra round in inserted and then the magazine is inserted back into the pistol with a firm slap on the butt
 
What about bullet setback?

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is the problem that you can have when you repeatedly do the "administrative load".................

If you chamber the same round every time, the bullet can get pushed back into the case and cause a dangerous over-pressure condition.

I think that it would be wise to chamber a different round every time and to periodically shoot-off and replace all of your carry ammo.

-Mk.IV
 
"Pinch" Check

The method you refer to as "press" has been called the "pinch" check for quite some time (maybe 15 years since I first heard about it. The method as it was originally described to me was applicable for Colt (or clone) semi-autos without a guide rod as follows:

1. Support the weapon with your weak hand taking care NOT to depress the grip safety.
2. Insert the thumb of your strong hand into the trigger guard taking care NOT to touch the trigger.
3. Wrap your strong hand index finger UNDER the barrel over the end of the spring cover (not sure what the correct term is for that, but it's the end cap for the spring that is engaged by the barrel bushing).
4. "Pinch" the barrel back far enough to see if the chamber was loaded.

BTW, supposedly on the version of the Gov't Model in use at that time, once the slide is out of battery, it ain't supposed to fire even if the hammer dropped. I can't tell you from personal experience if this is truly safe. I know I can't use this on my Kimber CDP Compact so I cover the slide in front of the ejection port with my weak hand and "pressure" the slide back far enough to check for a round.

Slisher
 
In reply,

Yes the firearm is holstered when doing an Admin Load as described, I was trying to keep the posting short.

I didn't see any other mention of this method so I posted the above. Thanks for the reply re Admin Loads.

Not trying to be a smart arse, but it is hard coming from this neck of the woods across a big puddle of water with different laws etc to completely understand some of your posts.

The problem about loading the same round shouldn't occur if the magazine is unloaded every time as the same round will not be on the top of the magazine and the rounds should at least be fired off during the normal yearly reshoot and replaced with fresh rounds.

This should stop weak spots on the rim of the shell possiblely causing a stage 2 stoppage. ( Have seen this happen with cheap brass)

I'm only going on our duty use here as private carry is not allowed. LEO's both Police and Security are the only ones concerned.

If there are any other problems with this method please post a reply as I'm not aware of any, and wish to retain and veiw the BEST methods to train.

Thanks Oink:D
 
Just took John Farnam's course 2 weeks ago, so this is fresh info. The admin check was taught, but NOT NOT NOT WITH YOUR THUMB IN THE TRIGGER GUARD.

BIG NO NO!!!

Master hand goes over the slide with thumb behind grip safety. No, that's not a problem as you have nothing in the trigger guard and nothing in front of the muzzle. (Like your eye! :eek: ) Weak hand supports the gun and thumb and index finger pinch the slide. Chamber is checked with the pinky of the master, not by eye, thus making this possible in the dark. Return to master grip, let the slide return on its own (don't ease it forward), bump the back of the slide with weak hand, safety on (if applicable to your firearm) then re-holster. Top off mag if needed while holstered.
 
YEARLY reshoot

Originally posted by Oink:

The problem about loading the same round shouldn't occur if the magazine is unloaded every time as the same round will not be on the top of the magazine and the rounds should at least be fired off during the normal yearly reshoot and replaced with fresh rounds.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Oink,

So an officer in your agency would have to fire his pistol only once a year?

I would want the police to practice more often than that!

On the subject racking and jacking the same round out and re-chambering the same round - What if the officer dosn't unload the magazine when he does the "admin. load"? Maybe he uses the witness holes to verify that the magazine is loaded. Then he would be chambering the same round every time.

Anyway, I believe that the "press check" is an important skill to master.
If a situation develops where you think that you may soon need your pistol, you may want to make sure that you have a round chambered and you may not have time to do an "admin. load".

In the back of your mind, you don't want to be thinking: "Did I chamber a round this morning?"

-Mk.IV
 
[In the back of your mind, you don't want to be thinking: "Did I chamber a round this morning?"]

Good to see someone finally got to the heart of the matter. :)
 
Yes unfortunately "once a year" reshoot is the norm. Dry firing excerises happen but that varies from area to area, but the once a year shoot is standard practise for LEO's. Only special and tactical squads have the time and budget for the extra practise.

Emptying magazines at unload is taught but as we all know, people do take shortcuts, thats the major problem with firearm safety, the"human factor" people take short cuts or think that they are smarter and therefore the rules don't apply to them. It is possible that some people may therefore reload the same round.

You can teach it but there will always be the few who will do it "their" way.
 
Again you must remember that here in Australia, personal carry by private citizens is not allowed, only LEO's and Security carry.

An Admin-load and Un-load at the start and finish of the working shift is the normal practise. Weapons are secured and home you go. We we do not carry off duty as you do and having a home defense weapon is also not allowed.

That is the law here so that is why we do it that way, hope that makes a bit more sense. (not the laws just the procedures)
 
As Mk IV says, "If a situation develops where you think that you may soon need your pistol, you may want to make sure that you have a round chambered and you may not have time to do an "admin. load".

As I stated earlier, this is also the reason one must be able to perform the press/chamber check both by feel and vision. Imagine if you were awaken in the middle of the night and forgot whether or not you had a round chambered in your "bedside" sidearm. One should be able to check the chamber without turning on the lights, which would ruin your night vision and give away your position.

Practice doing the press check and both visually and "FEELING" the round in the chamber. One should ideally be able to perform all functions "in the dark", whether it is the press check or a type 3 malf. drill. Know your weapon and how to manipulate it at speed, under stress, in the dark, etc. etc.

EricO
 
Long thread, several points:

1) Call it what it is, a "Chamber Check". All of the fancy sounding acronyms confuse the unitiated.

2) I was taught that (unless you think that you are about to die within the millisecond, and plan on firing as fast as you can align the sights), you always check the condition of any weapon that you pick up or remove from the holster. I violated that rule ONE time, and found when I got home that I'd been carrying an empty chamber all day long. Probably worse, is when you could have sworn that it was empty......

3) Holding the weapon with your support hand, & using the "master" hand to manipulate the slide?

The "master" hand should NEVER break firing grip, and the support hand is trained to live up to it's name, it does ALL of the support work. Trying to learn clearance and reload drills and swapping hands back & forth would be confusing enough on the range, impossible when the adrenalin dumps.

Just my .02, never heard so much talk about so many different ideas.
 
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