Problems loading .45 ACP

L

latsafun

Inactive
This is my first post, and I am hoping someone can help me out.

I recently completed a run of .45 ACP. I am using a Dillon 550B, with Dillon pistol dies. I used the round nose end of the seating stem. I loaded 230gr, .451 dia, RN polymer-coated bullets from Eggleston Munitions. The brass is new Xtreme primed brass, and the bullets were seated for a COL of 1.265. After the run, I case gauged all the rounds. About 50 of the rounds failed to case gauge. After inspecting the bad rounds, I noticed that the cases were bulged on one side. I pulled the bullets and ran them through the press again. Most of them passed case gauge, with a few needing to be pulled for a second time, then loaded again. I finally got all 250 rounds to pass.

Once I finished the RN poly coated, I started a run of Speer 185gr, .4515 die JHP. The bullets were seated to a COL of 1.215. I loaded a few rounds, then case gauged them...they failed. Paying careful attention to having the bullet straight up and down while seating, I managed to load 9 test rounds which did pass case gauge.

What is figured out is that on the bad bullets, when the bullet is being seated, it is being seated crooked. What I cannot figure out is 'Why?". I have never had a problem like this before.

After the JHP, I loaded some 230gr, .452 dia RN poly-coated bullets from SNS Casting. I could NOT get any of these to seat straight enough to seat correctly and pass case gauge.

I have adjusted the bell (both increase and decrease). My crimp dies is set to crimp just enough to make the mouth of the case straight. On whim I tried to use the SWC end of the seating stem, but that had no effect. I disassembled the seating die, thoroughly cleaned it, and reassembled it. I even loaded some blanks using different brass with various headstamps...none of these actions seem to have fixed the problem.

Any ideas? Any help would be appreciated.
 
Starting with a progressive can be a pain as you are finding out. My wild guess is you are not flaring your cases enough and that's causing the seater stem to jamb them against the case rather than pressing them into the case.

You should have enough flair for the bullet base to go down about 1/16 or so. If not screw your flair stem down a bit. The crimp feature will put it back to flush with the bullet. But then if you over crimp with the seater die you can cause problems too bulging the brass because it crimps too soon before the seating is done.

Take a factory 230fmj round and with the seater stem out, find a nice snug crimp setting for your dies with the press ram in the up position with the factory round in your seater with the die backed out. Then screw in the die until you meet stiff resistance. A snug turn with your hand is all you generally need. More than that is too much crimp as you deform the bullets. Then screw down the seating stem to set overall length for your reloads. Run some test rounds and check them in your gauge. Something isn't right with your set up.
 
I had this issue, my bullets were not going in straight I got a Lyman "M" die expander, it expands the casing just below the bullet to give it a place to sit. Helped a lot.
 
Do the rounds that fail the case gauge fit okay in your barrel chamber?

One seating die that appears to work well in keeping the bullets straight is the Redding Competition seating die, but before you rush out and buy it answer the above question.
 
I recently reloaded 400 .45 acp 230gr LRN rounds, using a RCBS single stage press. The bullets were made by Missouri Bullet Co, regular LRN, not the Hi-Tek coated.

Started off with the RN seater plug, but was getting an eyebrow on the tops of many of the bullets. Switched over to the flat nose seater plug, and that seemed to work fine. The bullets have small flat spot on top, but I'd rather have those than the eyebrows, and they look okay to shoot.

These are my first 230gr LRN reloads (used to use 200gr LSWC), and I haven't shot any of them yet. I've run into the same eyebrow deal on LRN in smaller calibers, and switched to the flat nose seater plug with zero problems.

I have a hunch (no evidence) that not all RN seater plugs match all LRN bullets, AND the bullet has to just about perfectly aligned to be seated eyebrow free.
 
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rc said:
Starting with a progressive can be a pain as you are finding out. My wild guess is you are not flaring your cases enough and that's causing the seater stem to jamb them against the case rather than pressing them into the case.

You should have enough flair for the bullet base to go down about 1/16 or so. If not screw your flair stem down a bit. The crimp feature will put it back to flush with the bullet. But then if you over crimp with the seater die you can cause problems too bulging the brass because it crimps too soon before the seating is done.

Take a factory 230fmj round and with the seater stem out, find a nice snug crimp setting for your dies with the press ram in the up position with the factory round in your seater with the die backed out. Then screw in the die until you meet stiff resistance. A snug turn with your hand is all you generally need. More than that is too much crimp as you deform the bullets. Then screw down the seating stem to set overall length for your reloads. Run some test rounds and check them in your gauge. Something isn't right with your set up.
Click to expand...
Yea, I have fiddled with the amount of flair (bell), and nothing seems to work.'

I failed to mention that my seating die and crimp die are separate dies.
 
74A95 said:
Do the rounds that fail the case gauge fit okay in your barrel chamber?

One seating die that appears to work well in keeping the bullets straight is the Redding Competition seating die, but before you rush out and buy it answer the above question.
Click to expand...
Yes - the rounds that successfully case-gauge do pass the 'plunk' test.
 
74A95 said:
That's not what I asked:

Do the rounds that fail the case gauge fit okay in your barrel chamber?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing even if they did the OP wont want to run them since they don't gauge.

I ran into a similar issue with my new progressive not long ago. Ended up using a Lyman M-die to fix the bell issue for seating, and a lee carbide factory crimp die which mildly resizes the casing to smooth out bulges while crimping, to ensure proper feeding. All my rounds now gauge properly coming off my progressive.
 
Some good ideas, in addition I'd look at the seater die stem, for fit to your bullets and possible contamination, especially if you have previously loaded cast and lubricated bullets.
 
74A95 said:
That's not what I asked:

Do the rounds that fail the case gauge fit okay in your barrel chamber?
Click to expand...
Oops - my bad...

The rounds that failed the case-gauged did fit in my chamber.

After reassembling the pistol, I loaded some in a magazine, inserted the mag, released the slide, then repeatedly racked the slide til the mag was empty. Each round chambered and ejected fine - no hang-ups.
 
latsafun said:
The rounds that failed the case-gauged did fit in my chamber.

After reassembling the pistol, I loaded some in a magazine, inserted the mag, released the slide, then repeatedly racked the slide til the mag was empty. Each round chambered and ejected fine - no hang-ups.
Click to expand...

You might want to 'plunk' test them in the barrel to make sure they are not obviously dragging anywhere.

Here's the deal - If they fit in your gun then, it does not matter whether or not they fit in the case gauge. After all, you're not shooting them from your case gauge.

You're shooting them from your gun. That's what they have to fit, and that's all they have to fit.
 
latsafun said:
Oops - my bad...

The rounds that failed the case-gauged did fit in my chamber.

After reassembling the pistol, I loaded some in a magazine, inserted the mag, released the slide, then repeatedly racked the slide til the mag was empty. Each round chambered and ejected fine - no hang-ups.
Click to expand...
No, you need to do a plunk test. Not chamber from the magazine. Take the barrel out, then drop a round in. Shoukd make a plunk sound as the mouth of the casing hits the heads pace ring in the chamber. If it does not drop in, like the gauge, its a fail.
 
Shadow9mm said:
I'm guessing even if they did the OP wont want to run them since they don't gauge.


I ran into a similar issue with my new progressive not long ago. Ended up using a Lyman M-die to fix the bell issue for seating, and a lee carbide factory crimp die which mildly resizes the casing to smooth out bulges while crimping, to ensure proper feeding. All my rounds now gauge properly coming off my progressive.
Click to expand...


Very true - I don't want to run them thru any of my guns if they won't gauge.

If I don't find a fix for this, I may try a different die. What really bothers me, though, is that I have been loading for a while now, and I have never had this issue until now. The run previous to this was a run of 500 Blue Bullets. NONE of them failed case gauge, which makes me think my problem has something to do with either the bullets or my loader set up.
 
Shadow9mm said:
No, you need to do a plunk test. Not chamber from the magazine. Take the barrel out, then drop a round in. Shoukd make a plunk sound as the mouth of the casing hits the heads pace ring in the chamber. If it does not drop in, like the gauge, its a fail.
Click to expand...
I did the plunk test first - took the barrel out of my gun and dropped each round into the chamber. They 'plunked'. After I put the gun back together is when I 'ran' a magazine thru it.
 
latsafun said:
If I don't find a fix for this, I may try a different die.
Click to expand...

Why do you want another die? That will be money spent to fix a non-existing problem. They fit your barrel. That's all that matters.

People need to get out of the mindset that they have to fit a case gauge. They don't. They only have to fit the barrel.

Put the case gauge in a drawer. If you hadn't used it in the first place, you'd never have known you had the non-existing "problem".
 
latsafun said:
Very true - I don't want to run them thru any of my guns if they won't gauge.

If I don't find a fix for this, I may try a different die. What really bothers me, though, is that I have been loading for a while now, and I have never had this issue until now. The run previous to this was a run of 500 Blue Bullets. NONE of them failed case gauge, which makes me think my problem has something to do with either the bullets or my loader set up.
Click to expand...
Are you using mixed brass? Check the headstamps on your fails. If everything else is the same, might be a bullet issue.
 
74A95 said:
Why do you want another die? That will be money spent to fix a non-existing problem. They fit your barrel. That's all that matters.

People need to get out of the mindset that they have to fit a case gauge. They don't. They only have to fit the barrel.

Put the case gauge in a drawer. If you hadn't used it in the first place, you'd never have known you had the non-existing "problem".
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Some people want their ammo to factory spec. Some people check all their ammo, and doing plunk tests 1 at a time is tedious compared to a 50 or 100rnd gauge
some people have more than one gun it will be shot out of and need factory spec ammo.

After going progressive I gauge all my ammo. It has found actual bad rounds, not just out of spec ones, more than a few times so far.
 
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