Problem, new gun

So here is where I am at this morning.

I have considered that the bullet is not sitting square in the case and may be canted. Though coloring the case black and dropping it in doesn't reveal a high spot and to be clear the bullet is not hitting the lands.

Again this morning I have taken a freshly resized case and dropped it into the barrel and all fits well. I then took a flared case and dropped it in. it would only drop about half way, which is what I expected.

I have measured 3 bullets and all are .451" to .452". The Speer reloading book says the case should be .472" and at the case mouth I am getting .472" on 10 that I have measured and .468" just below the bullet.

So I brought out the XD and ran the tests on it. The sized case dropped right in, the flared case dropped almost completely in and every one of the loaded bullets Plunked just like a factory round.
 
Latest report.

This afternoon I tried a number of things just to satisfy myself. I then pulled the seating die from the press and took it apart. It actually still looked very clean but I cleaned it again anyways with a spray metal parts cleaner. It's like Gunk but it's not. After that I ran empty cases into the die body and then also with a loosely fitted bullet w/o the seating stem and then with the stem but w/o the adjusting nut.

After all that I put it all back into the press and even changed the shell holder. Then took the 11 cases that didn't pass the plunk test and ran one back thru the die to which there was improvement. Turned the die down 1/4 turn and tried again with still more improvement so I turned it down another 1/8 turn. Now 9 of the 11 will drop and fully seat. The other two would drop with a very light tap. Problem remains that 1/2 will still not drop out when turned over.
 
kmw1954 said:
Recently started loading 45acp for an XD and things went well. Now I've just picked up a second 45acp so of course I quickly went and did a plunk test on the barrel. Not Good! only 1/2 of the rounds I tried in it will seat with the plunk test. Some are not even coming close. Most will seat with a very slight pressure and I can extract them with a finger nail a few take greater pressure and something stronger than my fingernail to get out.

I did take a marker and colored in the case all the way around but it does not show a heavy mark from were it is sticking. There does appear to be a light mark about 1/3 way around about midway between the rim and where the bottom of the bullet is in the case.

Thoughts or suggestions?

The bullets used are XTREME RN and Berry's Flat Point. The XTREME seem to be the worst of the 2. Factory rounds fall right in and right out.
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For my various XD-s, I need to run hand loaded rounds thorugh a Lee Factory Crimp Die, for them to feed reliably.
 
Curious difficulty for .45 Auto loading. Have you inspected the Witness chamber for fouling accumulation? The 0.472" number is a case mouth maximum over a loaded bullet. 0.467" is the minimum, so 0.4695" is the average and should be your target value. This information is in the drawings on SAAMI's web site. The value given in the drawing is the more critical limit of the tolerance range and the tolerance is given as -0.006", which is where the 0.467" lower number comes from. What makes the upper number more critical is if it is too big, you can't fit the round in some chambers at all, while a too small number, even though it can cause problems, will at least still fit inside and will usually fire by headspacing on the extractor hook.
 
Mike38 I have never used a FCD yet but at this point I'd be willing to try it. How well do they work with plated bullets? Do you know?
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I've never reloaded plated bullets in .45acp, lead only. But I would think the FCD would help you.
 
The 1st gun is a Springfield XD Mod2 this 2nd gun is an older Tanfoglio Witness 45acp full size all metal frame and as far as I know it has the original barre
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Tanfoglio's are known for having tight chambers. make your rounds to fit the Tanfoglios and all should be good with the XD
 
Had a similar problem with a Sig 1911. From the factory no throat or lead in barrel. Made loading SWC very difficult and rounds would not pass plunk test.
Sent barrel to gunsmith to have a throat cut in barrel and problem disappeared.

The Lee FCD will also work,but make sure you are not swaging down bullet diameter.
 
Will just a sized case pass the plunk test?

Post 5, 15 and 21.

No I am not crimping with a separate die, step. Then I never had a problem where I found it necessary before this.
 
Tranders makes a good point. Throating reamers for .45 Auto were made for target shooters to funnel lead SWC's a little better into the rifling, but in the day of practical shooting they seem to have been forgotten. It can still be a good thing to try. But a light turn with a standard chamber reamer would be where I would start.
 
Unclenick, ran a brush thru the chamber again this morning and then the Bore Snake followed by doubled up clean patches. Patches came out a little dirty but not what I would call dirty. They looked like I wiped them down with Hopp's oil. Then turned the seating die down one more 1/8 turn and everything is dropping nicely now.

The guy I bought this gun from told me that it hasn't been shot in quite a while, the reason he was selling it.

So I'm beginning to think that a combination of a number of things brought all this about.

1. The gun barrel being tight and perhaps a little dirty with varnished up oil
2. The dies are new also. I don't think I have 250 rounds loaded on them yet. And yes they were cleaned before I started using them.
3. Sometimes one just needs to back up and start over from the beginning.
 
I had the same sort of symptoms with 38 Special. It was suggested to me that the bullets were canted and that I should try the Hornady seater with sliding sleeve to align the bullets. Cleared it right up. So far though I only seat with the Hornady and still use a cowboy die to roll crimp the .358 bullet. I also used a tighter sizing die but am not sure of its effect.
 
Latest update for all.

Finally got to the range and was able to fire the rounds in both guns. All rounds fed, cycled and went boom in the Witness. There was one set of loads that wouldn't cycle reliably in the XD though they did in the Witness.

In total we shot 4 loads using the XRTEME 200gr RN and two powders, 2 loads each of the Berry's 185gr Flat point and 2 loads each of the 200gr Berry's Flat Point. Again the powder tests were done using AA#5 and Ramshot Silhouette. After I use up this jar of AA#5 I believe I'm going to try some AA#2 for the 45, 9mm and my 380.

The one thing I've learned with these 45 loads in these two guns is that they need to be loaded much shorter than suggested so the next loads I am also going to try and reduce the charge slightly.

Thanks for following along and for all the suggestions.
 
Be careful as you go to faster powders that seating too deeply can raise pressure excessively. It depends on whether or not the bullet was unseated and pushed into the throat by the primer before the powder pressure built up much.

I have found best accuracy with lead or other soft bullets and the lowest metal fouling happens when you seat them to jam the throat slightly, gauged as shown below. However, if they won't feed with that gaging, they are not being useful. Getting a reliability package from a reputable gunsmith is another way to go for feed issues.

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I was just chatting with a member on another forum only to find out he is also a moderator on one of the CZ forums to which he has told me that this is a common occurrence with CZ and Tanfoglio pistols because they are notorious for having tight chambers and short throats. He is telling me that with his guns he has to seat Flat Point and SWC so that the shoulder is barely exposed.

I also mentioned shortening the OAL AND reducing the powder charge at the same time to allow for the shorter case capacity. So when I make the change to the faster powder I will also take into consideration the length and reduce the starting charge as well.
 
I had to respond again after re-reading the replies. Not once unless I missed it has the OP told us what the OAL is on his rounds??????
 
The bullets used are XTREME RN and Berry's Flat Point. The XTREME seem to be the worst of the 2. Factory rounds fall right in and right out.
Click to expand...

I would make sure the seating stem style matches the ogive shape.
 
Don P, apologies on the oversight.

With the RN bullet the original length was 1.270" and am now down to 1.260" and all is well now. Also because of this shortening I also reduced the powder charge from 8.2gr of AA#5 down to 7.9gr and these are firing and completely cycling both of these guns. The Flat Point bullets are down to 1.185"

I also just loaded up another 120 of these RN using the odds n ends brass I had after sorting headstamps.

While doing this I came upon 4 headstamps that would not seat in the Witness and they were; MAXXtech, GECO, A 15 and one other that I don't recall other than after trying 2 I threw them in the recycle can. Though they would not seat in the Witness they did drop right into the XD and dropped right out when turned over. Also measuring these after loading they are right on the margin of being over sized in diameter.
 
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