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Pro/Anti-Gun Debate Forum

J

Jeff Thomas

New member
Rich et al - I'm sure you don't have enough to keep you busy ( ;) ), but a number of us have been very interested in Mort's 'My dialogue with Bob Musil' thread over in Legal and Political. While I would be very disappointed to see 'anti-gunners' regularly posting throughout TFL, it would be interesting to have a forum dedicated to this lively debate.

I tend to think we would win more than our share of battles, and I am just optimistic enough to believe that people such as Dr. Musil might be persuaded to at least tone down their rhetoric by removing outright lies and distortions from their arguments.

Surely there are plenty of 'anti-gun nuts' ( ;) ), but I wonder how you would feel about giving this a 'shot'? Thank you.



[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 02-07-99).]
 
i'm sure their are members of the anti-gun persuasion already lurking out there just to see what's being said in here. might as well tell'um to come in, and we'll see what happens. just a thought! :)

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fiat justitia
 
I've already indicated our willingness to establish such a Forum. I would hope that we'd find that most anti-gunners will have more in common than in opposition with most gun owners....and vice versa.

As long as the media keeps them believing that we're all Aryan Nations types and us believing that they're all Sara Brady sycophants, the only outcome is the inevitable march toward govt. control of all private matters.

Bring 'em on. They're welcome here. I have little doubt that TFL members can engage these issues in a non-confrontational manner.

Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 02-08-99).]
 
Yes, I'm looking forward to such a thing. TFL is one of the greatest repositories of gun knowledge on the Internet, and all we need on our side is the facts. Rich, it might be awhile before I get another message from Dr. Musil, but when he does, I'll extend your invitation (if you still want me to).
 
Mort...
Rich wants you to; we all want you to....its a go, send the invite

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Not wanting to be paranoid, but after reading a recent post in Legal and Political I have thought a bit more about inviting anti-self defense folks to TFL. I hope that the software and our moderators would be prepared to prevent excessive postings by those who do not reasonably share our interest in firearms. TFL is a tremendous resource, and the camaraderie here is rare - just a little nervous about seeing it torpedoed in any way. Thanks.
 
I worried about that, and posted my concern in the Musil thread, but I have a feeling that the pro-tyranny lobby will stay out of the other forums. I see little there that would interest them. Consider, also, the alternative; they might actually learn something about guns! This would be a real turning point.
 
Jeff, Mort...
I used to debate on the CNN and NY Times Gun Control forums. It got hairy at times but there was a cyclic frequency to it:
For the most part the forums' regulars tended to be pro self-defense/guns and only when an "incident" occurred and was reported by the media did rabid anti's show up. They weren't interested in debating rationally and intelligently, they merely wished to spew vitriol. After awhile, they would leave. What was extremely disheartening was the selective and onesided censorship performed by the staff of the forums. Anti-gun venom and insults were allowed to stand and whereas many well reasoned pro-gun responses and arguements were edited to meaninglessness and or out right deleted.
It was also interesting to discover that (for CNN) the staff were unpaid volunteers who had been recruited from the boards. The head staffer and chief "moderator" of the gun control board was an admitted Liberal Demo San Francisco housewife.

My point: the flavor, expertise and knowledge of TFL members will discourage most of those that wish to merely spew. There may be an occassional hit and run, but for the most part only those anti's that wish to sincerely debate and/or gather intelligence info will participate.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Why would we want them?
Is it for our entertainment or do we really hope to convert them?
Will THEY be edited? Will WE be edited?
I know that open discoures promotes understanding.I think that I understand THEM already.
It might be a venue for THEM to understand US,a very noble idea indeed.
If we could convert just one...
Lets try it!

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
It scares me a bit having the anti-gun crowd possibly diluting this good natured, informative forum. But it would offer a needed dialogue to show them, the anti-gun crowd, that we have common ground with them and maybe we could educate them on what our founding fathers thought was important and why.

Hiker
 
I've gotta think that "looking" for a confrontation can only be bad news.

First of all, if I be-bop on into a liberal, socialist, gun control forum I'm not going to be polite for very long at all. Especially when I am jumped by 250 pro-gov't fanatics.
(look at all the trouble was caused by my semi-jesting post at rec.gardens about Y2k Tactical Gardening...)

Secondly, by inviting such a confrontation, we limit ourselves in our ability reprimand, delete, close threads and remove members without the offender's crying "Foul!"

Rich has made it very clear that opposing opinions are welcome, when introduced in a civil manner. Under the current system, Sarah Brady herself could show up in Legal/political and explain that she is with the government and she is here to help and hopefully we would all behave ourselves and have an intelligent discourse. To go out an solicit or advertise that we have opened an Arena would only encourage their most embittered and aggressive gladiators to show up ready for a fight.

Anyone looking for a real discussion should be able to see that we at TFL are not the type to condemn or shy away from a reasonable discussion of any topic. What's more, we have proven in the past that we are all much more likely to apologize for even simple misunderstandings than we are to gang-stomp anyone into submission. If we remain a mature, reasonable group, open minded people with opposing view points will certainly feel comfortable engaging us in anti-gun or neutral threads.

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-Essayons
 
That's right! We'll make them feel very comfortable ... show them we're mature, reasonable, and open-minded ... that we are simply engaging in the free and civil discourse of opposing, but respected viewpoints.

Then we gang-stomp 'em, right? ;)

sorry - just couldn't help it ... ;)
 
Rob, where *are* these "liberal, socialist, gun control" forums? I feel the old twitch in my Evangelical Cortex...
 
Well, unfortunatley for me on those days that I just need to put out a good stompin, there is no Rec.Liberal.Sheeple

Furthermore, I'm not going to put out a hit-list on TFL of fun places to troll and feel good about yourself. (Email me ;))

Use your imagination, the testing grounds for your theories of conversion are out there. remember, they are tougher than you think. The anonymity of the keyboard empowers many of the sheeple! Leave your swinging watch at home and bring your Obi-Wan style powers of suggestion. If that doesn't work and you get put on the defensive.. let them strike the first blow, then hammer their sensitivities until they cry for a moderator to ban you and your brutal logicalness.

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-Essayons
 
I would caution you all to behave in the newsgroups.
Even if you put a phoney handle and e-mail addy, the header of your post shows your server. I've found that some of the rabid sheeple think there is nothing at all wrong about sending a false letter of complaint to your server accusing you of all sorts of things. Some servers will accept these complaints blindly and just cancel you without question. Smaller servers may listen to you and go thru the logs to see if you indeed did wrong.
Regardless, it will be a hassle. These same people are the ones who used to tattle on the schoolyards. ;)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
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