Private Militias....

[Art Eatman]

Approximately, Congress has declared that there is the regular military, the organized militia aka National Guard, and the unorganized militia. This last group is generally all (healthy) males between the ages of (IIRC) 16 to 45 or so. IOW, if you're in the age group and upright and breathing, you're part of the unorganized militia.

So: If you want to hook up with like-minded folks and train in small-unit tactics, go ahead on and do it. If you want to call it a militia and do public good deeds in times of natural disasters, all well and good.

The legal caveats have to do with safety and any land-use controls about public/private, shooting firearms, whatever. That would vary from state to state.

In the FWIW department, a few Islamic US citizen militia groups have banded together; I know not their intent. Same for a few of the Nation of Islam.

From what I've read over the last thirty or so years, most of the negativity is from the media and the Left in general. A very small percentage of militia groups suffers from a dearth of common sense smarts; the majority are "just folks" who believe in the intent of the Constitution. But that's my impression from what I've read; no first-hand experience.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't remember the exact wording, but my state has a law that addresses "paramilitary" training. I don't think the law mentions the word "militia." In my state, paramilitary training is treated much like personal body armor. PBA is unlawful to wear in the commission of a felony -- as long as I'm honest and don't plan to rob a bank, I can own it and wear it.

Paramilitary training (in my state) is not prohibited, unless it is conducted with the intent of overthrowing the government. That's perhaps not too terrible, although when one considers that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment was to have the citizens sufficiently armed that they COULD overthrow the government if it ever became too tyrannical, the law is contrary to the Constitution. If the law had been written such that paramilitary training with the intent of overturning the Constitution is unlawful, I'd like that better. But ... it is what it is. The law has been on the books here for many years and I'm not aware that anyone has ever been charged under it.

 

[zukiphile]

Paramilitary training (in my state) is not prohibited, unless it is conducted with the intent of overthrowing the government. That's perhaps not too terrible, although when one considers that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment was to have the citizens sufficiently armed that they COULD overthrow the government if it ever became too tyrannical, the law is contrary to the Constitution. If the law had been written such that paramilitary training with the intent of overturning the Constitution is unlawful, I'd like that better. But ... it is what it is. The law has been on the books here for many years and I'm not aware that anyone has ever been charged under it.

If the training is part of a conspiracy to overthrow the government, I can see the argument that the organization, or membership in it, is a crime.

Part of the reasoning behind prosecution of communist cell members in the 1950s was that membership involved an explicit conspiracy to overthrow the government.

 

[4V50 Gary]

BTW, California has a state militia. They are called up to occupy the National Guard posts should the CA National Guard be called up in its entirety. Members must supply their own uniform and equipment (which means they buy mil-surp).

 

[carguychris]

...Congress has declared that there is... the organized militia aka National Guard, and the unorganized militia... [the latter] generally [consists of] all (healthy) males between the ages of (IIRC) 16 to 45 or so. IOW, if you're in the age group and upright and breathing, you're part of the unorganized militia.

Absolutely true, but as I briefly mentioned before, it's important to remember that these are statutory definitions that are not exclusive; they do not exclude non-members from being part of some other form of militia, nor do they preclude the existence of other militia groups.

Additionally, AFAIK the only formal duty of the unorganized militia is to wait to be drafted.

 

[armoredman]

Arizona law.

2. Composition and designation of organized militia
Section 2. The organized militia shall be designated "The National Guard of Arizona," and shall consist of such organized military bodies as now exist under the laws of the territory of Arizona or as may hereafter be authorized by law.

26. Bearing arms
Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

26-174. Arizona state guard; establishment; purpose; appropriations

A. If the national guard of Arizona or a major portion thereof is called into active federal service, or if the national guard or a major portion thereof is alerted for federal service or for any other reason the governor considers to be necessary, the governor may establish an armed force for the safety and protection of the lives and property of the citizens of the state which shall be known as the Arizona state guard.

B. The Arizona state guard shall insofar as practicable be governed by and subject to the laws of the state pertaining to the national guard. The governor shall issue or cause to be issued rules to govern administration and organization of the state guard.

C. Appropriations made to the national guard shall be deemed appropriated to both the national guard and the Arizona state guard, if and when the latter organization is established, and any funds that are unexpended from appropriations to the national guard may be used for establishment and maintenance of the Arizona state guard.

We've been trying for years to get the State Guard clearly defined but the current governor has shot down most State Guard related bills. I would love to see our State Guard activated, and given missions as it was discussed last time they were serious, protecting the border with actual state backed authority...the feds would most likely go into orbit.

 

[motorhead0922]

a few Islamic US citizen militia groups have banded together; I know not their intent. Same for a few of the Nation of Islam.

Nation of Islam provided "security" for the Michael Brown funeral in Ferguson, MO.

 

[Koda94]

My main questions are: what is a legitimate private militia? Are they really legal? What role to they play in regards to the second amendment?

So it seems... a private militia is any able body man, yes they are legal (we can gather and train and organize lawfully for lawful purposes, typically self defense), its simply our constitutional right to do so at will. Oregon's statute on paramilitary activity is ORS 166.660 and is essentially legal.

Also it seems from this discussion that a private militia could possibly be called upon by the state... I imagine in some extreme situation. It doesn't appear this had happened anytime in US history hence... no notable achievements so far in US History.

I found out that Oregon also has a state private militia called the Oregon State Defense Force (ORSDF), which like other states can be called upon when the Oregon National Guard forces are deployed elsewhere. A side note the OSDF history goes back to the Civil War.


I'm not certain what to say about the poor reputation private militias have. One impression I get, and I could be wrong, is many of them have extreme political and/or religious rhetoric they operate on. And in the case of the Patriots in Texas (see link I posted) they probably would have a better reputation if they informed proper authority rather than just show up randomly (taking the article on its surface) and wind up getting shot at by border patrol.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I found out that Oregon also has a state private militia called the Oregon State Defense Force (ORSDF), which like other states can be called upon when the Oregon National Guard forces are deployed elsewhere. A side note the OSDF history goes back to the Civil War.

The ORSDF doesn't sound very "private" to me. According to the link you provided, it is absolutely a component of the state government.

The Oregon State Defense Force (ORSDF) is one of the three components of Oregon State's organized militia,[2] with Oregon's Army and Air National Guard (ORNG) making up the other two. It serves as a state-level military and emergency services reserve force.

...

As part of the official state militia, the Oregon State Defense Force serves under the Governor of Oregon rather than the President of the United States and draws its legal authority from Chapter 399 [3] of Oregon law. Those statutes require that the ORSDF be made up of individuals that are not a part of the federal military services or the National Guard. It is an all volunteer force composed of former military personnel from all the military services and is a branch of the Oregon Military Department.

 

[Koda94]

I stand corrected. What I get for skimming the article.... I got locked into the history part I thought was somewhat interesting.

 

[BobCat45]

Koda94, this is just my opinion and not authoritative, but if you go to wikipedia and search for michigan militia you will find that it was a group founded in 1994, reportedly in response to Ruby Ridge and the Waco confrontation, by citizens concerned about the federal government's actions / use of deadly force against citizens. The appeal was to the phrase in the Second Amendment about a "well-regulated Militia" - the idea being that there was a 2A right for them to 'keep and bear arms" as well as to assemble and train with those arms for exigencies precipitated by prospective federal over-reach.

The press took up the matter and used the idea of a "private militia" as a catch-all for "lunatic fringe right-wing extremists" - as they characterized anyone who thought the 2A meant anything about standing up to excessively forcible governmental intervention in daily life. In other words, "private militia" became a broad brush to tar anyone who did not toe the line.

My impression was that your inquiry had to do with the negative connotations associated with "private militia." This is just my take.

 

[45_auto]

Disclaimer. I'm not interested in joining a militia

If you're between 17 and 45 you're probably already a member of the US Militia:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

 

[Koda94]

My impression was that your inquiry had to do with the negative connotations associated with "private militia." This is just my take.

mostly true. Because of the associated negative connotations with private militias I wanted to know if there was any out there that were honorable militias and if any private militias have made any notable contributions to the U.S. While I have no doubt there are some questionable militias it makes no sense to assume there are not also some respectable. Not that I want to join one, but that it (honorable private militias) supports the 2A as I understand it.

So far Ive heard of none...

45_auto, thanks for the link. Looks like I joined a militia after all...

 

[HiBC]

I recall when the Shotgun News had a number of posters in the White Supremist/Nazi/KKK camps.

This is also about the same time a Denver radio host I listened to at work most every day was gunned down unloading his groceries in his driveway.The Aryan Nation Mac-10'd him.He was Jewish and did not care for Neo-Nazis .Alan Berg.
IIRC,these Aryan Nation guys were connected to whatever local organization Randy Weaver had some interaction with.The BATF,in my understanding,pressured Mr Weaver to be an informant for them to bust the Aryan Nation.Next thing you know...Ruby Ridge.

Also about this same time a guy named Bo Gritz...or something similar,I probably spelled it wrong...he had a "militia" of some kind going on...as I recall he got in some trouble trying to pull off a private Viet Nam POW rescue

Bo,IIRC,was involved in talking Randy Weaver into coming on down.

Now,if you younger guys would go to you tube and look up "1960's riots" or "LBJ deploys troops to Detroit" or 1968 Democratic Convention....

You can get the idea we lived in interesting times.

The press and politics were going after guns and gun folks,and were terrified of "Ex Green Berets"...

And the TV news started doing features on "Militias".

Generally speaking,they were painted as crazy beer bellied camo'd Viet Vet anarchist white supremist blah blah blah...

And,actually,we probably did have some honorable groups,but we had some bad ones,toh,lets not forget Mc Veigh.
I suppose you could call the gangs and Black Panthers a form of Militia...and that was about the public image of Militia...Redneck versions .

That was popular media image.The Truth?Varies.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Generally speaking,they were painted as crazy beer bellied camo'd Viet Vet anarchist white supremist blah blah blah...

Which, of course, is manifestly untrue and unfair.











I DON'T have a beer belly.

 

[SPEMack618]

So, what does the Georgia Army National Guard do with a shiny new second lieutenant, who while already rating a bunch of pretty ribbons, hasn't made it to the Infantry Officers Basic Course yet, so can't take over his platoon?

Why they designate him the the State Forces/Active Duty Liaison Officer, of course!

And what does he then do? Why, he goes out in his shiny state government issued fleet car and, well, liaises.

Part of that duty, when I had it, was to be the go between with the Georgia Army National Guard and the Georgia State Defense Force, Georgia's own state sponsored militia if you will.

My interactions with them were all uniformly pleasant, they were all very nice people, who truly meant well, and most were retired military or prior service.

That being said, you know the guy at the range, with the AR-15 who is trying just a little too hard to show how good he is, yeah, that was these guys.

Considering their non-existent funding from the state, they manage to run some pretty elaborate disaster response drills.

I have no doubt that in the event of a natural disaster of the biblical scale, say a Cat-5 hurricane hitting Savannah, those guys would be there, and be somewhat useful.

That being said, there were no Confederate flags on display, no talk of impeaching the current commander in chief, and no guns. Period. None.

These guys are a militia of the true sense, volunteers who train of their own accord.

And they don't make the news, other the occasional blurb of assisting the CAP, GSP, and DNR guys in looking for a missing kid in the woods.

 

[Buzzcook]

A private militia is a contradiction in terms. If it is not under civil authority then it's just a gun club with lots of camo.

None of the so called militias of modern times has any legal authority to act in the manner that traditional militias did.

 

[45_auto]

A private militia is a contradiction in terms. If it is not under civil authority then it's just a gun club with lots of camo

It would appear that the common definition of militia (civilian soldiers) disagrees with your definition. There is no requirement for a militia to be under civil authority. Many militias have actually been raised to resist or overcome civil authority (ref US revolution).

The GI Non-Partisan League is commonly considered to be an example of a militia. See "Battle of Athens":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

In a more modern usage:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/militia

http://www.kdictionaries-online.com...18#&&DictionaryEntry=militia&SearchMode=Entry

mi•li•tia (mɪˈlɪʃ ə)

...

4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

In the modern world, what civil authority do you know of that organizes people into a paramilitary group as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government?

 

[Art Eatman]

Seems to me that a large part of the problem is that the word "militia" means different things to different people. Hard to have a reasonable discussion because of that.

It appears that different groups of people who are members of the legally-identified "unorganized militia" have their own differing viewpoints as to their own purpose and/or mission.

 

[Buzzcook]

Many militias have actually been raised to resist or overcome civil authority (ref US revolution).

Nope the revolutionaries of 1775 did have a civilian authority that they were responsible to. It was just not the British colonial authority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

Most colonial militias were founded by the townships and then were answerable to whatever colonial government was in place.
Lexington had its militia and it was part of the greater Massachusetts militia. At the time of the revolution the Lexington militia was still under the control of the town and then the Massachusetts Provisional Congress but not the colonial governor.