What's your thoughts on my theory that the Win primers are pushing the bullet to the lands faster then the Fed primers before the powder really starts to burn . Therefore treating every load with Win primers as if the bullet was jammed in the lands compared to the Fed primers . So as a whole that combination of components will show higher pressures at any given charge weight or seating depth then a duplicate cartridge using the Fed primers ?
I'm just wondering if I should just move away from that train of thought .
So today I went to the range and thought I'd run a new test . This time I loaded 42.6gr in the LC-14 cases . I loaded 10 with the Win primer and 10 with the Fed primers . Everything was the same except the primers . Keep in mind I had pressure signs at this charge using the Win primers and this brass .
Winchester primer load
2648fps
2650
2641
2679
2666
Avg 2657fps ES-38.6 SD-15.39
Moderate sticky bolt at top
Fed primer load
2617fps
2637
2645
2641
2623
AVG 2632fps ES-28 ? SD-11
Kind of a stiff complete bolt lift with it being even harder at the top
Interesting isn't it . but wait I also took that 43gr load out that uses the Fed primers and LC-12-LR brass . That had a smooth bolt lift with NO binding at the top . So as Uncle nick was suggesting . It appears that the issue is NOT the primers and actually the brass that is causing the pressure issues . I have one last thing to test to confirm that . That is load some Win primers in the LC-12-LR cases at 42.6gr and see if the pressure signs go away . I'll do that next time out .
EDIT :
Now that I think it's a case issue . I had a thought about something I observed a couple weeks ago that may have something to do with why the LC-14 cases get sticky bolts and the LC-LR do not at the same charges . That is the portion of the LC-14 case body that is directly above the extractor grove and slightly above measures .470 while the LC-LR measure .4685 .
I usually don't measure this area but I had one cartridge when I was at the range that chambered a bit tight as if I'd only neck sized it . How ever I know this specific batch of brass was sized to the length of my GO GAGE . That's .0015 shorter then I normally size my cases for this rifle . So that had me thinking why am I getting a little resistance when closing the bolt . I did not fire that cartridge so I could inspect it when I got home . After checking COAL and case head space and them both being correct . I went ahead and colored the whole case with a sharpie . It was only then I saw the case was rubbing down by/at the web just above the extractor . These are all FL sized cases using the #6 comp shell holder .
after measuring I found that area of the cases measured .471 maybe .4715 . I then went and checked all the cases that measure over .470 . I had 40 out of 420-ish FL sized pieces that measured over .470 with a few at .472 . Of those 40 I only checked a couple but the ones I did had the same tight fit in my chamber . The rest of that lot of brass measures right at .470 with a few a little less . At .470 I do not feel the bind when I chamber the case or loaded cartridge .
Long explanation I know but that leads me to my question . Is it likely that's my problem ? There is just not enough clearance at the base for the cases to be able to take the stronger charges ?
The next obvious question is , Will a small base die fix this issue ? I assume that's the very reason they're made for . If so and I'm sure I find this out my self but will the small base die only need to be used once seeing how I'll only be using the brass in my bolt guns ?
Well that ended up being a little more long winded then I planned . What do you guys think .
I'm guessing the pressure difference is just due to primer start pressure difference. A primer pressurizing a case that size can't move the bullet forward faster than the powder builds pressure. The proof is that if you look at sectioned .308 Win cases you see a slight inward curl at the mouth. This proves the case didn't let go of the bullet until the neck had expanded off the bullet most of the way forward. Primers don't make enough pressure to do that and so they unseat a bullet comparatively slowly in the large case. A little case is another matter. Primers beating the powder to unseat the bullet happens in tight space pistol cases and in small rifle cases like the 22 Hornet.
Regarding fit, take a look at the SAAMI drawings and see how the cases compare and how well your chamber matches. Keep in mind that the cartridge linear dimension numbers are all maximums with a minus tolerance and the chamber linear dimension numbers are the other way around. The exception is where a range is given. Look, too, for the diameter tolerances to learn the range.
Also worth doing with the tight cases is to try rotating them around the clock to see if that affects how easily they chamber. This is just to double-check that you didn't get a chamber cut off-axis with the bore. It happens. Otherwise, though, I think the softer brass is just flowing under pressure. The way to check is to measure the diameter both before and after firing a case that's still a good fit to see if your load is producing case head expansion. If so, it's too warm for that particular lot of brass.
Keep in mind that the cartridge linear dimension numbers are all maximums with a minus tolerance and the chamber linear dimension numbers are the other way around.
SAAMI shows the max case diameter of .4703 and the minimum chamber diameter of .4714 with a difference of .0011 . So my cases that measure .471 to .4715 can easily be binding in the chamber even more so when you consider I'm using a $45 set of calipers to measure that . To be clear I'm able to chamber the rounds they just feel tight , Which apparently they are just not in the way I expected .
I just measured a once fired LC-14 case I bought yesterday at the range It seems most are .472 with a few measuring as much as .4745 . When I FL size the .472 cases they are sized down to .470 but the cases measuring .4745-ish only size down to .472 . Bummer I just bought 500 more . Great deal $20 bucks for 500 but now I know why .
I'll go play with all those and see what chambers easy and what binds up .
SIDE NOTE :These LC-14 cases are disappointing . I have LC-09 , 10 , 12 and all size down to around .4685 or so . The LC-14 I can only get to .470
I think I might be more confused now then ever . I just finished measuring , sizing to different case head spaces and chambering multiple cases to find what is binding up . I have one case sized .0005 longer then my GO GAGE that has a web measurement of .4705 that binds up so much I need to knock the bolt back with the palm of my hand . While I have another case with what appears to be the same measurements chamber and extract with ease .
I sooted up the case with a candle that sticks real bad and it does show some rubbing at the base . Turning it and chambering again multiple times does not seem to make a difference . Nor does it with the case that has the same measurements but chambers fine .
All the cases I was just testing were sized to GO GAGE lengths or less . and trimmed to 2.005 of the 20 cases tested 7 of them have some resistance to closing the bolt with 2 being pretty hard to chamber and extract . Yet they are at most +/- .0005 in diameter at the base ( .4700 to .4705 and at most .0005 longer from datum to head then my Forester GO GAGE that chambers freely . Other bras I have that chambers fine measure .4680 to .4690 .
The confusing part is I have two seemingly same sized cases . One binds up and the other does not .
This shows the marks on the cases . AS you can see the marks in the circle are actually at an angle as shown by the green line . The mark goes all the way around but its higher on one side then the other . With the other being right at the extractor groove
Here are the measurements . The .4705 is the one that stuck more
So I got to thinking about those marks being at an angle . It made me consider that my heads are out of square so I checked that with a method UN suggested a couple years ago . That is line up 10 or so cases with a straight edge then look down the row and see if any are crooked
Those are the worst cases I've ever seen . All of those are FL sized with only the first two not trimmed . Now wonder they were so cheap
Here's the same test I did a couple years ago . These are not perfect but way better
So then a few months ago I thought I'd try that same method to see how square my Lyman universal trimmer trimmed cases
up the case with a candle that sticks real bad and it does show some rubbing at the base . Turning it and chambering again multiple times does not seem to make a difference . Nor does it with the case that has the same measurements but chambers fine . 
