Primer Package Frustrations!!

I normally use CCI primers which works well with my RCBS hand primer tray. The few that aren't flipped, a nudge from my finger takes care of them. BTW, I've never had one not go off just because I used my finger as a turn over device....

I haven't ran into the 'sideways' box yet.... Interesting. I always disliked the size of the Federal box for 100 primers... Seemed wayyyyy overkill when you used to CCI packages.
 
Post 17:

I like the Federal large box, I like the way they stand the primers up with room.

and then milkd:

Well, and no offence intended; but 18 posts whining about the orientation of primers in a package?

There is nothing much more offensive than a man trying to make himself look good at others expense.

F. Guffey
 
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Unclenick, Hind sight is perfect, that still does not explain R. Lee's quote in his book on modern reloading. He said he did not test Federal primers, he said Federal did not donate primers to be tested.


this post explains.

Explains what? He should have spent as much time as I did trying to set off a primer with the Lee Auto Primer with the small tray. I gave up and moved to the RCBS Auto Primer. After about 2 hours I managed to mangle a primer and set it off.

And they used a torch? With all that plastic?

He said they said? His books have dates when published.

F. Guffey
 
There is nothing much more offensive than a man trying to make himself look good at others expense
.

Mr. Guffy, Once again you have inserted your (doubtful) "wisdom" where it was not needed, nor appreciated. Perhaps learning to understand another's sense of humor, and be slower to criticize would be of much benefit to you...:(

I, as an anonymous poster have no need whatsoever to raise my self above other members, much unlike criticizing others as one old timer around here consistently seems to enjoy. I rarely, if ever tell anyone they are wrong, making myself out to be the end all expert on all things reloading (unlike that grumpy old feller).

In other words "...the pot calling the kettle black". :eek:
 
I have been using primers in loading for more than 45 years. I have had no problem using my round RCBS tray. If you are unable to handle the primers then it might be time to take up another hobby that you can handle. Perhaps GULF would be for you.
 
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that Federal primers are well represented in the company of those who win shooting matches. If you have a winning recipe using Federal primers, you won't be bothered by their packaging. It could simply be a side effect of Federal caring a lot more about the quality of their product than some of the other manufacturers.
 
It is like hot horse shoes, it does not take me long to look at them. As I mentioned, R. Lee thought primers were dangerous. He included the possibility the primer had a built-in self launch design. When shipped on edge both sides of the primer is contained, when hauling ammo to the range is baggies primers are contained on one side and unsupported on the other :rolleyes: and unprotected and if something goes wrong:eek: the primer can self launch.

F. Guffey
 
What the packaging looks like on the Remington and CCI primers when they shipped them sideways. Also the old Dillon flip trays will work with the current Federal containers.

IMAG0616.jpg
 
F. Guffey said:
He said he did not test Federal primers, he said Federal did not donate primers to be tested.

Tom-C, who used to work with the NRA, said he saw a video of the test, so presumably the test happened. I just don't know when he saw it or when it was conducted.

In the first edition of Modern Reloading (1996), Lee he says only CCI and Winchester primers are safe in the Auto-Prime (or other Lee tray-fed tools). In that edition priming is a separate chapter (5) starting on Page 65. On page 67 he writes: "We have been accused of playing favorites, taking handouts and simply being unreasonable. None of these are the case." So it sounds like nobody provided them with primers for testing.

Lee does reference a discussion with retired CCI employee Dave Anderson in which Anderson explained that the basic lead styphnate (alkaline hydroxide of lead styphnate) used by Federal was more prone to sympathetic detonation than the normal lead styphnate used by CCI and Winchester (among others). (P. 66 of first ed.)

In the Second Edition of Modern Reloading (2003), priming is incorporated into Chapter 2, starting on page 48. On page 50 Lee writes in underlined bold type: "This Information Has Changed Since The First Edition Of Modern Reloading." He then goes on to print a list that contains the following:

  • CCI and Winchester small pistol primers and Remington large and small pistol primers (2½ and 5½) are safe for use in the auto-prime with 100 primers in the tray.
  • Use a limit of 20 per tray for Winchester large pistol, magnum large pistol, and magnum large rifle primers.

  • Use a limit of 10 per tray for Winchester large rifle primers.
The following sentence appears by itself after the list with the above information:
"DO NOT USE FEDERAL PRIMERS IN A LEE AUTO-PRIME."
Then in the next line Lee says: "Any primer not listed above has not been tested and so you must assume they are unsafe." I take that to mean the statement not to use Federal primers was actually to be considered part of the list, and that it had been tested and found unsafe, but that primers like Tula, Wolf, S&B, PMC, RWS, and so on are the ones that had not been tested and that must be assumed to be unsafe. I think the formatting has caused confusion there, but I do not read it to mean Federal was not tested.

There is no mention I can find of failure to donate primers for testing by anybody. Again, the First Edition suggests that nobody donated anything.

In the Second Edition, p. 51, Richard Lee mentions that John Lee had got a primer to go off in an RCBS Posi-Prime. He says: "They copied the Lee Auto-Prime, so it's basically a good design. However, it's not foolproof. Someone can and will unwittingly use it wrong and it will explode. Use a little common sense. Handle the priming tool as a loaded gun. Do not point it at anyone and certainly not at your face."

Like many, I loaded lots of Federal primers in an Auto-Prime and never had a problem. I was blissfully unaware of the warning at the time. Since then, I went mostly to a progressive press for handgun loading and to single primer seating tools for rifle and handgun test loads. However, this is just anecdotal evidence. Between myself and my family, we've taken literally thousands of airplane flights and none of us has ever been in a crash. That does not mean I should believe airplane crashes cannot happen. That's always the weakness of any anecdotal evidence, like my experience with Federal primers in the Auto-Prime.

Lee claims to have had multiple letters from lawyers whose clients had not followed his instructions and had accidents. He has explained that the instructions warn not to use Federal or any primer not listed. He says, thus far, that has always been the end of it, meaning they've never heard from a lawyer whose client was using CCI primers.
 
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Originally Posted by F. Guffey
He said he did not test Federal primers, he said Federal did not donate primers to be tested.

I did not purchases R. Lee's book on modern reloading, it was given to me. Another reloader purchased two books, he kept one and gave me the other one. His books are kept on a shelf and are nice and clean with the original paper covers. My books are worn and ragged out, he gave me the book because he knew I would read/use the book. I did not read the part of the book that interest me, I read the book.

R. Lee was very cleaver, I have always suggested Federal made the large primer trays to give R. lee something to complain about, then there are all the reloaders that read what they wanted to read and then stopped reading and thinking.

F. Guffey
 
Do not point it at anyone and certainly not at your face."

I said I do not use my thumb when seating primers with the Lee Auto primer knowing full well the design pointed the case away from the users face. I also said reloaders can get into a bad habit of double clutching, double clutching can cause primers to stack, the top primer can start into the primer pocket leaving room beneath it for another primer.

And of course, there is wisdom in the old saying "If it don't go, don't force it". I will never run out of parts for the Lee Auto primer, I have never worn one out and I have never rendered one scrap.

F. Guffey
 
It's that last one that I rely on. I don't force things that don't feel right. I have never broken my Auto-prime, either. Lee's story about the fellow having misfires because he used two thumbs to make the handle go all the way forward is not what I want to emulate.
 
The packaging should not be a problem as long as you know it is the best primers on the market. I never had one misfire from any federal primer in 30 years. So their packaging is part of the package! I accept that.
 
Like many, I loaded lots of Federal primers in an Auto-Prime and never had a problem. I was blissfully unaware of the warning at the time.

Me too. Thousands. And there will be thousands more, most likely. (I always wear safety glasses during all loading and brass reconditioning processes.) CCI is always my first choice, but with this so-called "shortage" (which is actually the new normal), I buy what I can get. If it's Federal, it's Federal; and they seem to work just fine.
 
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