Primer kill test , need suggestions ;-)

M

Metal god

New member
I just bought 50 test tubes and stand and I'm going to do a primer kill test inspired by a resent thread . I'm looking for some ideas as to what to soak them in , hell and what not to soak them in ( BOOM ! ) :D as well as if any primers would be redundant ?

The primers I have are

Federal small & large pistol

Winchester Large rifle - small pistol & mag pistol

CCI Large and small rifle , Large & small pistol and mag small pistol

Soaking materials I would assume would be firearm related but could be anything I may have on hand .

I have

WD-40 ( both standard & specialist )
Slip 2000
CLP
Hoppies
One shot
Generic gun cleaner
water
Acetone
paint thinner
Carb cleaner

Off the top of my head that's it . Any ideas or suggestions on how to go about it . I was thinking 3 to 5 primers in each solution for 2 to 4 weeks ??? or maybe split it up at 24hrs , 48hrs , 5 days , 2 weeks , 4 weeks ??? I'll need to do some math with the second choice I only have 50 test tubes or run multiple test .
 
I'm curious how this goes. I'd say do 24 hr increments , with the first at 12 hours, until they don't go bang or a few days tops. If after a few days there not dead, it's unlikely more time will do anything.I'd test wet and dry. I remember reading a similar article, and once the primers dried out, they pretty much all still went bang.

For the test, I'd just prime a bunch of cases and use a plastic disable pipette to fill each liquid in the case, since that's where the primer will be usually if someone is trying to kill it. It's then easier to test because your not trying to put them in cases or figure out how to try to set them off.

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Most of those liquids except water will permanently deactivate the primers in several minutes soaking time. They don't have a liquid proof seal Water will until it evaporates and dries out after several hours.

All based on what I remember when I did tests in 1967.

Military cartridge cases are well sealed around the primer and bullet, everything proof so to speak.
 
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I know of one demiller that soaks primed cases in a mix of regular green antifreeze and water before depriming.
Don't let pets anywhere near antifreeze!!!
 
I'd just prime a bunch of cases and use a plastic disable pipette to fill each liquid in the case, since that's where the primer will be usually if someone is trying to kill it
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I was thinking this as well but not only having the primers in there natural state but the priming process puts a load on the cup and I'm sure slightly moves the insides some . My issue would be keeping the cases filled and sealed especially 9mm but I guess I could use 357cases for the small pistol primers . I only have 45acp cases for the large pistol primers .

I was going to soak them in the tubes then prime the cases with a hand primer . However that as I think through this . I also see a problem with that if the load I put on the primer while priming somehow alters the results .

That's why I started the thread to work through some ideas before I get started .
 
Bart B., do I understand what you said correctly? If primers are soaked in water they deactivate but upon evaporation and drying they still go off?

I recall Unclenick saying water will destroy them so I use an empty Hodgdon powder bottle half full of water to deposit unwanted live primers and cases with live primers but I've never tested them to see if they are, indeed, dead. Neither have I yet thrown that container in the trash for the garbage company to find out they are alive.
 
FWIW, I got some new pre-primed 9mm and 45 ACP brass from X-Treme and measured the H2O capacity of 20 cases in each caliber. I dumped the water after weighing, let them air dry for 3 or 4 days and they all went boom. I don't know who they get primers from.
 
Another question comes to mind: even if the primers remain "live" over time is there any reduction in energy, causing less efficiency in igniting a powder charge? This is not really the same as inactivation on purpose prior to use as in Metal God's experiment, but I wondered since I have CCI Large Rifle primers from the 80's and I hesitate to use them since they might adversely affect the expected results seen with an acceptable load.

I guess I could load and fire them to find out, though, eh?
 
The Speer reloading manual from 1993 said motor oil would do the deed.

Are you planning to put 1 primer in each test tube? Or are you going to put several from a brand into the tube and fish them out as needed for testing?

I don't think the act of priming a case would be enough to change the outcome. But an additional variable could be to do both the primed case and the test tube primer for peace of mind that it will bring. Use of a primer sealant would cure the issue of leaking from primed cases. Ballistic Products sells it in a squeeze tube.
 
I think you will drive yourself nuts trying to cover all the bases.
First pass, I would use Federal and Winchester small pistol and .38 special brass.
Why?
Federal uses a different form of lead styphnate than other brands, so test Federal and one other.
Easy to check .38s in a revolver, lots less manipulation than an auto or rifle... unless you have a break action in some other convenient caliber.
(Note, the primers that fire will tend to back out of the case, not connected with your contamination trials.)
 
This could be an interesting experiment. We had someone soak some primers for over two weeks without deactivation; kerosene or WD-40, IIRC. If you look at the lacquer on Federal primers, you can imagine it would take some time to penetrate those. Other makes have none of that sealant.

If I were doing the experiment, I would use some things I know penetrate well. Gunzilla with about 10% by volume of tea nut tree oil added is a super-wicking penetrant. The YouTube test of penetrants on rusted lug nuts shows Liquid Wrench penetrating oil in the spray can significantly outperform others, so I would make that one of my candidates. You can try adding the tea nut tree oil to other things, like ATF, or use it by itself. It's expensive (Wallmart is the cheapest I've found), but I got it because it is a camphor family (smells strong) oil that kills mold spores by penetrating them, and I wanted to make an oil rub that would eliminate white mold I'd found growing on some grip panels that were in my humid cellar. Worked just fine. Didn't smell great.

For firing the primers, I would take a case, drill the flash hole out to 1/8" and ream the sides to 0.214" (large) or 0.178" (small) to let the primers go in slightly loose. I would then place the case in the test gun muzzle-down and attempt to fire them.
 
sweat and heat

Can you do a few with sweat from your forehead, foot, or hands? I've always wondered how much handling primers effect primers. Heat is another issue I'm concerned with. How long is ammo and primer good for when stored in hot temperature conditions?
 
Can you do a few with sweat from your forehead, foot, or hands?
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I've read that 5 times now and every time it makes me laugh . It brings up an image of me running around the block working up enough sweat to soak primers in , see I'm laughing again . Although I actually think testing sweat is a good idea , I don't think I'm that dedicated to this experiment :D .

I like the idea if using 38/357 cases but that only allows me to use the small pistol primers . Although I believe I have 3 different brands of primers in that size and could also add the CCI small rifle primers to that mix because they are the same size as small pistol primers .

Are you planning to put 1 primer in each test tube? Or are you going to put several from a brand into the tube and fish them out as needed for testing?
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Large amounts in each solution and fish them out as needed to test .

Next dumb question is how many primers do I test in each solution at each duration . I'd start by saying I'm not doing 30+ each . I could see doing 5 each at each duration , meaning 5 at 12hr , 24hr , 48hr , 1 week , 2 weeks , 4 weeks for a total of 30 primers of each brand in each solution . Holy crap I wrote all that out with out doing the math first , that would be A LOT of primers assuming I use 10+ solutions .

One big problem there is I only have 60 Fed small primers left . I could drop the 12hr and 4 week increments which would allow me to get the federal primers into 3 different solutions . FWIW I have several hundred Federal LR match primers I could use , Are all Federal primers made the same ?

I already have liquid wrench in my cart for my next Amazon order , don't think I'll do the gunzilla . Any thoughts on using acetone or other harsh solvents , any danger with spontaneous combustion as it breaks through any sealant or contacts the primer mix ?

Another question comes to mind: even if the primers remain "live" over time is there any reduction in energy, causing less efficiency in igniting a powder charge?
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I was thinking the same thing and hope I'll get some idea as I test . Maybe they sound different or fizzle haha . If there does seem to be a notable difference I think testing a fully assembled cartridge may be the next step .

Another thing I do pan to do "if" some don't discharge/are killed is to let them dry back out and try again . This would need an additional 5 primers in the rotation to pull out and let dry .
 
The answer to how many you need to do depends on how big the variation is. It's kind of like having to work backward from the answer, but if you did five and found some fired and some didn't, you could consider repeating and bracketing the time around that middle ground to see where the threshold of change occurs.

Primer strength is another issue and requires some machining. Instead of the case I suggested earlier, turn a piece of steel the size of the cartridge case and put in the slightly oversize primer pocket and the 1/8" flash hole. Follow the flash hole with a hole drilled and reamed to accept BB's or 3/16" inch ball bearings, if you have a supply of them. Set the chronograph out in front of the test gun and see what velocity differences the primers give you launching these little spheres.

Note that this approach creates the problem of how to drop the BB or bearing into the hole and keep it at the bottom while you are getting the primer in with the muzzle down. You may have to follow the projectile with a small tuft of polyester pillow ticking to keep it from rolling out, but that may register on your chronograph. Probably better to coat them with Lee Liquid Alox or the White Label Lube equivalent or bee's wax, so they have to be ram-rodded into the hole and don't feel inclined to roll out.
 
. FWIW, I got some new pre-primed 9mm and 45 ACP brass from X-Treme and measured the H2O capacity of 20 cases in each caliber. I dumped the water after weighing, let them air dry for 3 or 4 days and they all went boom. I don't know who they get primers from.
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Primers in primed cases are often untouched by water and water-based solutions, since surface tension creates a bubble over the flash hole and protects the primer.

This is one of the reasons why I think the originally proposed test method would be more productive than the more common "squirt stuff in a primed case and see if it'll still go bang."
 
FrankenMauser said:
Primers in primed cases are often untouched by water and water-based solutions, since surface tension creates a bubble over the flash hole and protects the primer.



This is one of the reasons why I think the originally proposed test method would be more productive than the more common "squirt stuff in a primed case and see if it'll still go bang."
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Sure. But that's where 99% of people will have primers they need dead. Doesn't do any good if it works in a test tube and not application. There's various ways to break the surface tension. Fwiw just deprime them and move on. But I get wanting to know what will render then inert, at least for depriming.

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I'm sorry, I'm fairly new to reloading, but I can't wrap my head around a thread about "killing" a primer. What's the purpose ?? Someone enlighten me..........I see that everyone involved has mega post numbers, so maybe I'm just missing something.
 
Well I guess it starts with one of the first things a new reloader is told . You don’t want to touch the primers with you bare hands because your oils could mess with there ability to function properly. It just explodes from there of opinions as to if that’s true and if anything can kill a primer or cause it to fail . This sounds like something that is not that important to know . However when you think about what a misfire could mean . Loss of dinner or even your life it takes on a whole new meaning . Granted for most of us range rats it really doesn’t mean a thing . As I’ve gotten older I like to know more and more of things I don’t fully understand. I wish I thought this way when I was younger because I’d be a hell of a lot smarter than I am now if I did . In my teens and early 20s if I didn’t understand something it caused a lack of caring and I just moved on . I just wasn’t a very curious person back then but I am now . It Probably didn’t help that I was very involved in things that inhibited brain function back then or for some things that brightens your mind . :(:o
 
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"As I’ve gotten older I like to know more and more of things I don’t fully understand. I wish I thought this way when I was younger because I’d be a hell of a lot smarter than I am now if I did ."

I had to laugh out loud at that one because it hit home, too. I'm sure we are in a group of millions.
 
I'm sorry, I'm fairly new to reloading, but I can't wrap my head around a thread about "killing" a primer. What's the purpose ?? Someone enlighten me......
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Someday, someone will walk up to you and say " you got guns, here". Now your the proud owner of a box of old ammo. It fits your gun, but you don't know if it will even fire. You don't even know the bullet weight, because it is in a plastic box with no label. You want to use the brass but not the rest of it. So you pull the bullets and pour the powder out on your lawn. Now, what do I do with that primer? ....knock it out of the case and kill it before putting it in the trash. Because here it is a crime to put explosive material in the trash. Yup, happened to me too :rolleyes:

And because we are curious. Mostly because we're really curious....;)
 
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