I store my HD shotgun (Maverick 88 ) in "cruiser mode". Lately I have been reading that this a bad habit as I have to fire on an empty chamber to set up gun (chamber empty/5 in tube, safety off) The recommendation is to use a snap cap. However, the plastic ones are unreliable in feed and leave plastic residue in action when ejected. Aluminum doesn't do much better. The brass ones cost more for one than a box of ammo! My question is , has anybody done the "cruiser mode" using a primed hull for the first round (in chamber). I have a safe area to fire the weapon into ground with primer. Then load 5 loaded into tube. Primed hulls feed and eject normally and can be re-primed for many uses. They are also a whole lot cheaper. Gun would only be unloaded and reset once every couple of weeks for inspection and light cleaning. I can buy hulls in different color scheme than my shells.
Primed hulls and cruiser mode
- Thread starter wjh2657
- Start date
Bill DeShivs
New member
Why not use the slide release or just leave it cocked?
Just buy a box of #209 shotgun primers.
You can punch the spent primer out of an empty shell with a long nail and a hammer. Support the empty shell on a socket wrench to give the spent primer a place to go.
Press the new primer in by putting the primer on a flat surface and pushing the unprimed shell down over it. A large dowel inside the shell and a few taps with a hammer should do it.
A lot of pump action guns rely on the recoil of the gun to unlock the slide so you can pump it. After shooting your primed empty, you may still have to use the slide release or you can simulate recoil by pushing the slide forward to unlock it.
You can punch the spent primer out of an empty shell with a long nail and a hammer. Support the empty shell on a socket wrench to give the spent primer a place to go.
Press the new primer in by putting the primer on a flat surface and pushing the unprimed shell down over it. A large dowel inside the shell and a few taps with a hammer should do it.
A lot of pump action guns rely on the recoil of the gun to unlock the slide so you can pump it. After shooting your primed empty, you may still have to use the slide release or you can simulate recoil by pushing the slide forward to unlock it.
".....why not just leave it cocked?"
This is the way I have done it for years. It was only after many articles in gun mags and forums about it being hard on spring to leave it cocked that I began to question the technique. Does it really cause problem to leave spring in cocked position? Gunsmiths please answer.
This is the way I have done it for years. It was only after many articles in gun mags and forums about it being hard on spring to leave it cocked that I began to question the technique. Does it really cause problem to leave spring in cocked position? Gunsmiths please answer.
RetiredLawman
New member
I'm interested in this article. I have some guns that I've had for close to 60 years that have never been out of the cocked position. No problems firing. It is my understanding that cycles are what determines spring life, not compression.
oneounceload
Moderator
I leave mine that way...all I do is make sure the chamber is empty, pull the trigger. gun is ready to rack into action without a loaded chamber - no need for anything else
Is there such a pump action monster?
I have never heard of an inertia/recoil activated slide release or locking lug release... Any I have seen are trigger operated in that once trigger is pulled and hammer drops the action will cycle without the release tab being depressed...
I am 100% positive it is NOT the case with mossbergs... THANK THE GUN GODS FOR THAT!
Brent
You could leave an empty that's been fired in your gun and proven to eject smoothly. A sized case would be better. Doesn't have to be a live primer.
However, why not load magazine on cocked shotgun-- safety on if you like--, open action, insert finger into chamber while also checking visually, immediately close action, and pull trigger? Then release safety.
Pulling the trigger without delay or distraction, while shotgun is safely pointed, immediately after verifying manually and visually that the chamber is empty isn't a complicated or unsafe maneuver as I see it.
A simple and universal maneuver that works fine, and precludes the extra step of having to remember to operate the action bar release under stress--which ultimately could present more of a hazard than the above method.
NOTE: Don't like the idea of the empty in the chamber. How do you check a shotgun in the dark manually and know, with certainly, that the shell you can feel is the empty? Sounds like eliminating one safety problem while potentially creating a worse one, IMO.
Each rd. you insert in the magazine compresses the spring a higher % than the previous. With 4 rds. loaded into a magazine, the last rd. reduces the uncoiled spring by about 50%. For a shotgun kept perpetually magazine loaded (like mine), I download by one for that reason--whether it's more for piece of mind or the necessity of reducing the stress on the mag. spring is debatable.
There are advocates of keeping the shotgun in a mag. loaded, chamber empty condition, with hammer cocked and safety on, to increase the propietary nature of the shotgun for added safety reasons. If one is well trained to release action, rack shotgun, and release safety, then that method has it's place.
However, why not load magazine on cocked shotgun-- safety on if you like--, open action, insert finger into chamber while also checking visually, immediately close action, and pull trigger? Then release safety.
Pulling the trigger without delay or distraction, while shotgun is safely pointed, immediately after verifying manually and visually that the chamber is empty isn't a complicated or unsafe maneuver as I see it.
A simple and universal maneuver that works fine, and precludes the extra step of having to remember to operate the action bar release under stress--which ultimately could present more of a hazard than the above method.
NOTE: Don't like the idea of the empty in the chamber. How do you check a shotgun in the dark manually and know, with certainly, that the shell you can feel is the empty? Sounds like eliminating one safety problem while potentially creating a worse one, IMO.
Each rd. you insert in the magazine compresses the spring a higher % than the previous. With 4 rds. loaded into a magazine, the last rd. reduces the uncoiled spring by about 50%. For a shotgun kept perpetually magazine loaded (like mine), I download by one for that reason--whether it's more for piece of mind or the necessity of reducing the stress on the mag. spring is debatable.
There are advocates of keeping the shotgun in a mag. loaded, chamber empty condition, with hammer cocked and safety on, to increase the propietary nature of the shotgun for added safety reasons. If one is well trained to release action, rack shotgun, and release safety, then that method has it's place.
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If you use live primers instead of snap caps, you'll be storing your gun with the primer's residue in the barrel.
If you want to drop the hammer with out stressing the firing pin, there are other ways than using shells. When I break-down my O/U's to case them, I hold a plastic mallet (the ones used with the tube removal tools) over each firing pin hole and drop the hammer.
A similar method can be used to de-cock a pump gun. Close the action on an empty chamber, insert your object of choice (plastic, hard rubber, wood) down the barrel and hold it against the bolt face, pull the trigger letting the object absorb the firing pin's inertia and remove the object.
If you want to drop the hammer with out stressing the firing pin, there are other ways than using shells. When I break-down my O/U's to case them, I hold a plastic mallet (the ones used with the tube removal tools) over each firing pin hole and drop the hammer.
A similar method can be used to de-cock a pump gun. Close the action on an empty chamber, insert your object of choice (plastic, hard rubber, wood) down the barrel and hold it against the bolt face, pull the trigger letting the object absorb the firing pin's inertia and remove the object.
Bill DeShivs
New member
There is no problem with leaving springs compressed. It doesn't hurt them. I make a lot of springs.
Honestly- I think you're over thinking this. The easiest way to get into cruiser ready is to COMPLETLY clear the gun, and dry fire it. Load the mag. You're done.
If you're comfortable defending your home with a shotgun, you should be totally confident in your ability to get to cruiser-ready without having an ND.
If you're not you should consider some additional training.
If youre not comfortable with cruiser-ready, that's fine- I'd pick ONE method of loaded storage and train around it. I'd say that condition 1 (chamber loaded, safety on, magazine loaded) is the other viable choice. I like cruiser ready as it leaves the gun in a fairly safe mode (drop safe, btw) but is nearly instantly ready for serious use.
If you're comfortable defending your home with a shotgun, you should be totally confident in your ability to get to cruiser-ready without having an ND.
If you're not you should consider some additional training.
If youre not comfortable with cruiser-ready, that's fine- I'd pick ONE method of loaded storage and train around it. I'd say that condition 1 (chamber loaded, safety on, magazine loaded) is the other viable choice. I like cruiser ready as it leaves the gun in a fairly safe mode (drop safe, btw) but is nearly instantly ready for serious use.
It my understanding that avoiding spring damage isn't the reason for Cruiser Mode. If the spring is compressed, then the gun must be unlocked by dropping the hammer or actuating the action release. The intent of Cruiser Mode is to avoid having to do either of these functions... just pump and go.Bill DeShivs said:
True; however, there are those who are reluctant to dry fire on an empty chamber as descussed in the OP. Your method works for me, but it doesn't meet the OP's parameters.Slopemeno said:
oneounceload
Moderator
Think I said that above....agree....no need to over-think or over-complicate this.....drop the hammer, load the magazine.....cruiser ready no issues.....maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I don't think so.....
I thought "cruiser mode" was the safest way to carry a nearly ready pump gun in a police "cruiser". In this case the typical barrel up position would require the action be locked. Otherwise you would have a shell laying on the floor after a chase involving a few potholes or a single rail crossing. Then officer law would jump out, rack action forward on an empty pipe and "click"... dead officer! Don't read into it what is not there... It is obvious that locked cocked action is wisest here.
Brent
No, I have not used any kind of dummy round to dry fire my shotguns (or any other guns). I don't own any dummy rounds.
Cruiser mode. I've tried this carry method but didn't like it. When grabbing the gun, I didn't like the pump cycling from movement or gravity if I didn't want it to cycle; I also didn't like the gun rattling with that loose action while driving.
At home my guns are also loaded with the internal hammer cocked, chamber empty. In my patrol car, the gun is loaded and set up the same way.
Train/practice to use the action release before cycling the pump to get that first round into the chamber. Practice daily if you've got to with that snap cap/dummy round. A good safe way to practice is to make sure any live rounds are entirely in another room, btw.
Cruiser mode. I've tried this carry method but didn't like it. When grabbing the gun, I didn't like the pump cycling from movement or gravity if I didn't want it to cycle; I also didn't like the gun rattling with that loose action while driving.
At home my guns are also loaded with the internal hammer cocked, chamber empty. In my patrol car, the gun is loaded and set up the same way.
Train/practice to use the action release before cycling the pump to get that first round into the chamber. Practice daily if you've got to with that snap cap/dummy round. A good safe way to practice is to make sure any live rounds are entirely in another room, btw.
No time frame for compressing the spring after which it might weaken?
I believe you've left out the most important reason, for citizens and LE alike. Many pump shotguns, like the 870 are not drop safe. And yes, you can rack and shoot, very quickly. From low ready, a cruiser ready shotgun can be raised and fired about as fast as with the round chambered, safety on.
Brent- the treadlock shotgun mount usually keeps the forend from moving...doesn't keep it from squeaking and squaking all over the place, however. I went on a ridealong with a local department and after about half an hour the officer and I were looking under the seats for napkins, matchbooks, ANYTHING to shut that mount up.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Nnobby-
Springs can be compressed indefinately. It won't hurt them at all.
Springs can be compressed indefinately. It won't hurt them at all.
Perhaps this is unique to Winchester model 12 shotguns. I used to shoot one and I noticed that the slide could be unlocked by yanking the forend forward smartly after dry firing it. This happens naturally during recoil. This model also didn't have a trigger disconnect and you could hold the trigger back and slam fire it, and me and my brother did that a lot from the hip because we were teenagers, seeing how fast we could empty the magazine while blasting an old oil drum.