Price too high, rules too stringent

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The US story: Wages haven't kept up with price increases--whether it's groceries or deer leases.

I recall when ten of us leased a 7,000 acre ranch for $300 each. But gasoline was twenty-eight cents a gallon, back then.
 
If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision.

So.........you're saying hunting should only be for the rich and privileged? Not being able to justify $2500 a year for a lease makes one stupid and/or foolish? IMHO, That mindset is asking for the total loss of all hunting as we know it.

As I said in my first post in this thread, Lack of access to decent hunting areas is the #1 reason hunters numbers are declining. I don't know how things work in Texas, but here in Wisconsin the decline in hunters means a decline in license sales. Decline in license sales means a decline in monies available for habitat and it's improvement, stocking and enforcement of game law. This is not only on public lands, but private also. Old farts with money to burn for a blind someone else set up over a bait station is not going to allow regular hunting to survive. When hunting costs become prohibitive to young hunters just starting out, what happens when they move on to something else(and they do) and those old farts with money to burn die off? What happens to deer populations when money is too short for enforcement and poachers have the upper hand? We already have many areas in the state where deer numbers are way above the desirable levels. Lack of access and lack of hunters makes so those numbers keep growing and crop damage and deer/vehicle collisions become more prevalent. Yep, hunting will only get better for those folks with deep pockets, but how long will they go as costs to hunt escalate, before even they say enough is enough.

I have been fortunate in my life. I have around 300,000 acres of public land in three directions, within 25 miles of me. Go a tad north and there is even more. I also have had the privilege of hunting a multitude of private land parcels over the years, and still do. Not everyone has that luck. Especially young hunters and hunters new to an area. Some states don't have good land available for public hunting or it's very limited. Sometimes that choice in careers makes the choice of where we live for us. Sometimes young parents think that $2500 a year is better spent on their kids than on dad's hunting. 18 years down the road, Dad doesn't have the desire to hunt anymore and those kids never got the chance to try. Does that make the Dad stupid or foolish? No....makes him a parent. How about that young hunter trying to save that 20% down payment on a house or trying to pay off their student loan? Odds are they are making good money....just have different priorities. Stupid and foolish? One of the biggest problem I see in America today is the "I got mine!" attitude. Ain't always a case of being smarter or better, but many times just luck of the draw, who you know or being in the right place at the right time. I got a lot of friends that lost half of their 401Ks thanks to Bush. They figured on having a lot more disposable income, but thru no fault of their own, now have to watch their pennies. Stupid and foolish?

We all know how the principles of supply and demand work. Basic Freshmen Civics. It's just unfortunate for many that it affects them so severely when it comes to having a decent place to hunt. Especially when the choice is between that and a decent place to live, braces for the daughter of a safe vehicle for the wife and kids to drive. Yeah, I got mine, but it don't mean I look down my nose at those that don't and belittle them. Doing so, says a lot about ones ego.
 
So.........you're saying hunting should only be for the rich and privileged? Not being able to justify $2500 a year for a lease makes one stupid and/or foolish? IMHO, That mindset is asking for the total loss of all hunting as we know it.

There's plenty of opportunities; however they might not be a $5 gas ride away. Plenty of open public land; you just might have to work a little harder than in the "good old days".
 
"If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision."

What a stupid jerk thing to say. I wish this forum had a like button so I could give post #22 a big ol thumbs up
 
There's plenty of opportunities; however they might not be a $5 gas ride away. Plenty of open public land; you just might have to work a little harder than in the "good old days".

I would hope this was the case. But from the OP's statement's it does not appear that way. Per example.....
I’m trying to get my kids to at least get to hunt and kill a deer before they are grown like my father did for me but I just can’t afford it.

Even with good access to private land to hunt, I still enjoy the challenge of the hunt on public land. Going behind someone else with my bird dog and getting a rooster they walked by means more to me than going to a place where no one else hunts. While I have good success on public land for deer, for the most part, I do have to lower my standards and expectations in order for it to be successful. Where I let 8s and small tens walk on private land, they would be considered trophies on most of the public land around me.



"If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision."

What a stupid jerk thing to say.

Kinda what hit me. Here's a dad who would love to see his kids have a successful hunt(like most of us dads), yet is frustrated because he cannot afford it. Then he is told by a stranger that knows nothing about him..... "too bad, you just made poor life choices!"

The US story: Wages haven't kept up with price increases--whether it's groceries or deer leases.

I recall when ten of us leased a 7,000 acre ranch for $300 each. But gasoline was twenty-eight cents a gallon, back then.

Last time gas prices averaged 28 cents a gallon was back in 1966 when the average wage was under $3 a hour. $300 woulda been three weeks take home pay or more than month's payment on an average home. The value of that $300 would be about $2400 in today's market. Seems to most folks, it was just as prohibitive back then as it is today.
 
Having lived out West with a lot of open public land it is very doable BUT you have to make the effort. Might mean using vacation instead of weekend road hunting, but it is a very real possibility.
 
Priorities, I guess. I had a decent 8-5 job, but I did a lot of shade tree mechanic work for the extra money. That way I never had to spend the grocery money on my hunting and fishing. As a do-it-yourselfer I never had to hire vehicle maintenance or household repairs.

Look at it this way: One engine overhaul for a customer, back then, paid for the lease.
 
I have a couple of relatives who own more than a section of land each in East and West Texas. They don't lease their land out anymore for hunting for simple reasons, and more and more of their larger-tract landowning friends are no longer leasing either.

First, it takes only one bozo who shows up and sends a hot round across the property line, into a neighbors livestock or building (or the neighbor), and my relative ends up in court, bigtime.

Second, while most people are decent, there are enough instances where someone signs a well spelled-out, no-questions-about-the-rules-lease with no intent to make good or follow the covenants of the lease:

  1. maximum number of hunters (they signed up for 4 hunters but brought 40)
  2. calibers allowed
  3. what game can be taken
  4. allowed hunting times during the day
  5. property rules and regulations
  6. specific hunting days in a month / year
  7. registration of each hunter and proof of insurance / liability indemnification
  8. rectification of any issues attributed to the hunters (and who decides)
  9. etc, etc, etc clearly spelled out.

Getting a judgement from a careless hunter doesn't mean anything if they just decide they're never going to pay, or don't have the financial assets to attach.

Finally, the peace of mind of not having to enforce the above is worth more than the lease receipts. Both allow friends and family to go out most any time by just checking in, but leasing to people who don't necessarily care i a disaster waiting to happen.

We have seen the signs of illegal / trespassing hunters on a few occasions. Since there's not really a solid way to sort out the intent of a wouldbe hunter, yea I wouldn't lease out my land either.
 
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I guess I am blessed to have lived in Michigan all my life, I had to hunt state land at first and then a friends farm I did well hunting both, we have lots and lots of state land come hunt here in Michigan !!!!
 
I too am blessed. In PA, I have many acres of public land within 5 miles of me in multiple directions. Some of it is where I learned to hunt in my youth. These days I am able to hunt with my son on an 88 acre tract of land that belongs to my in-laws. The property is posted to outsiders, but they do permit family members to hunt there with prior permission. I'm sorry you(op) do not have access to land to pass these skills on to your children.
 
Yes sir, not about having made wrong decisions. Quite to the contrary, I’ve come a long way from where I’ve come from. Parents divorced when I was 9 and my mother declared war on my father and made my life hell. She spoiled me with letting me do things I’d have never done if my father was able to play a larger part of me. I wasn’t spoiled with monetary things, just let me go wild. I never got out of the 9th grade, but when I was 17 and quit, my father promptly made sure I had a drivers license and GED. I tried like hell to get into the Army at 22 yrs old but because I had quit school and because I was arrested twice for city charges (never been to county jail) I had to get a waiver for the school thing and then again for the arrest record, which I got, and then took the ASVAB and physical and was waiting on a ship date when Jan 1 of ‘94 rolled around and as of that moment no non-grads were let in. Two months later I began a 15 month Aviation Maintenance school which culminated in me becoming an FAA licensed A&P Mechanic. I’m now just turned 47 and I’ve been working at a well known Firearms store for a year now because I had a lower back ALIF fusion surgery and a hand condition called Dupuytren’s Contracture where my fingers curl up into my palm. I had the first one cut out at 41 yrs old and I’ve had 7 others surgically removed since then. It’s recurring and it’s exasperated by working with my hands and so I was having a surgery per year right when that IDIOT obama screwed up healthcare and every penny I could save in a year was being spent so I could get my keys out of my front pocket! I live in a 5 yr old $250,000 home, I have a sweet ‘72 Corvette LT1 and a little Boston Whaler on the side of my house. Now that my kids are old enough to hunt I want to pass on our awesome National traditions to my kids and flat can’t afford those prices.

Now, if the person that said that stupid stuff thinks I should have chose better he can go get bent and pound sand! There’s another thing that happens in Texas. Folks like that can very easily find themselves on their backs staring up into the sky wondering who just knocked the S*** out of them...
 
And your rant does nothing to solve your issue. If you do not want to pay for a lease in TX, either hunt what small amounts of public land is available or go out of state.
 
And your rant does nothing to solve your issue. If you do not want to pay for a lease in TX, either hunt what small amounts of public land is available or go out of state.
__________________
Many time, just saying what's on your mind makes you feel better. My wife says I ***** all the time. It sure makes me feel better.
 
Trouble is, ranting doesn't put money in the billfold.

My choice was to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer. That meant that a higher percentage of my paycheck stayed in my pocket. Then, the shade-tree mechanic work was like a 40% pay raise, which paid for some luxuries--like deer leases.

Choices.
 
Maine is crazy land when it comes to hunting--I know some Maine hunters who don't even bother hunting in their own state--little public-access land compared to privately-held and increasingly each year the pressure on private land is growing such that trespassing, intentional vandalism, stealing of stands and trail cams etc is rising. If the hunters aren't organized enough to look out for public lands access issues--then inevitably hunting land will disappear as it gets sold to richer private land-holders. I once bought a tract of land for myself thinking that I could at least have a place for myself--but unless you or someone you appoint lives there full-time and wants to personally supervise patrolling and enforcement--you WILL be overrun with trespassers eventually who don't care about ownership rights. It's a doubled-edged sword problem--people who are precluded from hunting your land will hate you for it--and if you allow access to everyone (which I did) eventually your land will be vandalized and degraded. I sold at a loss but was happy to be rid of the problems.
 
I have tried hunting public land in Texas. A friend and I chose a spot and each of us went into the woods in one direction and applied reflect tape so our flashlights would lead the way the next week when the season started. Then we went to the other side of the road and did the same thing so we could park and each start walking in on our respective sides. When I got in there the morning of opening day and got up into my makeshift stand and as soon as I stopped moving I saw a light flash me from about 20 feet away. A person that couldn’t speak English had used my guiding tape and was hunting the spot. We sat there all morning and never saw anything but I was unsure how it would’ve worked if a buck would have showed himself.
I had one bullet in my rifle. I only had three rounds when we left to go hunting and I didn’t buy any on my way out there because that should be two more shots than I needed. The evening before the hunt, after we set up camp, I went to the rear of the camping spot and opened my soft case to make sure all my screws on my scope were tight and when I did that a game warden drove by and two officers stopped and got out of the car and came back to me. They even did the good cop/bad cop thing to me and said that I was breaking the law and then the bad cop wrote me a $250 fine, but to add insult to injury, that SOB took two of my three rounds and said he could’ve taken my rifle. I guess I was technically breaking the law but I wasn’t being unsafe and if they would have drove past a minute before or a minute later I wouldn’t have had my soft case open.

Now, that’s my experience hunting public lands.
 
I have tried hunting public land in Texas. A friend and I chose a spot and each of us went into the woods in one direction and applied reflect tape so our flashlights would lead the way the next week when the season started. Then we went to the other side of the road and did the same thing so we could park and each start walking in on our respective sides. When I got in there the morning of opening day and got up into my makeshift stand and as soon as I stopped moving I saw a light flash me from about 20 feet away. A person that couldn’t speak English had used my guiding tape and was hunting the spot. We sat there all morning and never saw anything but I was unsure how it would’ve worked if a buck would have showed himself.
I had one bullet in my rifle. I only had three rounds when we left to go hunting and I didn’t buy any on my way out there because that should be two more shots than I needed. The evening before the hunt, after we set up camp, I went to the rear of the camping spot and opened my soft case to make sure all my screws on my scope were tight and when I did that a game warden drove by and two officers stopped and got out of the car and came back to me. They even did the good cop/bad cop thing to me and said that I was breaking the law and then the bad cop wrote me a $250 fine, but to add insult to injury, that SOB took two of my three rounds and said he could’ve taken my rifle. I guess I was technically breaking the law but I wasn’t being unsafe and if they would have drove past a minute before or a minute later I wouldn’t have had my soft case open.

Now, that’s my experience hunting public lands.

What was illegal?

I feel really fortunate to have grown up in Eastern Oregon and to live in Idaho. I've always had what seems like limitless public land all around me. I think Idaho is 65% public land to the tune of about 35 million acres. We just drag the campers out to where we want to hunt and enjoy.
 
If I had to guess, he had the rifle loaded, preseason, in the woods. I don't see any other way that a law would have been broken.
 
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