President Obama Changes Directions Under ITAR

What's funny about this, is there's nothing sticky about it at all...unless you're the .gov attorney in charge of making sure the statute stands up in court.
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Well, it's also going to be sticky for the test case. Like you, I think there's a good chance it won't hold up, but someone's going to have to go to court to get it struck down.
 
Maybe I'll end up being the sacrificial lamb...

Almost all of my machining on my own firearms is "for the sake of accurizing". :rolleyes:
 
systemized production

d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;
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What is their definition of " systemized production of ammunition"?

I know it includes "automation", but with the crazy definitions that are being implemented, could "Systemized" be something as simple as a progressive press, with automatic case and bullet feeder?
 
What is their definition of " systemized production of ammunition"?
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It did say manual loading or reloading would be exempt... however this does beg to question...

I bet a Dillion 1050 would meet their definition
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This argument could be made, although I suspect the ATF won't be running around looking to law home reloaders using a progressive press. They don't even prosecute half the people whom they catch lying on the 4473. Still just because it is highly unlikely that you would be prosecuted over a vague definition doesn't mean there's no reason to worry about it.


I just made a significant investment in starting a small business. While my business plan involves more than just firearms for the interim (willing to do anything to pay for equipment), my end goal was to build it into a gun store and gunsmithing business over time. I see this announced last year, but I just failed to see anything about it. Sigh... seriously?!?!?... at least I planned for the possibility that regulations and laws could hinder my work.

What really ticks me off is that your normal joe, even a normal pro-2A gun owner, really won't care much one way or the other. It doesn't effect them, so no reason to acknowledge it. The only people it really hinders are machinists and advanced gunsmiths... a number so few that their voice won't garner even pro 2A attention. It also ticks me off that there is virtually no recourse, other than contacting my Senator and Representative. Not that they have the power to really do anything anyway.
 
What is their definition of " systemized production of ammunition"?
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You mean today or 20 years from now? I'd think at this point in the current administration we all realize that any term not strictly defined by Congress is fluid and subject to arbitrary change designed solely to piss off gun owners.
 
This argument could be made, although I suspect the ATF won't be running around looking to law home reloaders using a progressive press. They don't even prosecute half the people whom they catch lying on the 4473. Still just because it is highly unlikely that you would be prosecuted over a vague definition doesn't mean there's no reason to worry about it.
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It's not about who they're going to prosecute, it's that the vast majority of people will self-enforce without prosecution because they are law-abiding.

I would think that the 1050 with its motorized system and significant automation would qualify.
The only people it really hinders are machinists and advanced gunsmiths... a number so few that their voice won't garner even pro 2A attention.
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Well, it has already garnered pro 2A attention--that should be somewhat encouraging.

But you're on target about the strategy. Generally it's a bad idea to anger a huge group of voters, so the strategy is to nibble around the edges, making slow gains but never making a lot of voters angry at one time. They don't have a time limit, so they can afford to take very small steps.
 
Reloading might just be the next big hit. The administration loves the idea of modeling the the US after the EU; many EU countries made reloading illegal.

The definition of "systematic" means whatever they want it to mean, down the road it won't just mean motorized. IF that's what it even means today.

I can see primers redefined to come under the same restrictions as blasting caps. I can see smokeless and black powder coming under the same restrictions as TNT. It will just take them a while. Or maybe not that long at all.

Many are focused on the annual fee. Writing that check is the least onerous part of the process. Compliance reporting requirements make up most of the hassle. A company I worked for had 3-4 people just tracking the paperwork and reporting potential exports to the government. That company had to "ask permission" for potential exports on a monthly basis to receive what amounted to a "tracking number." Every potential export must be reported and logged in real time.
 
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I would think that the 1050 with its motorized system and significant automation would qualify.
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So how long until discussion of the same in Reloading is treated like select fire conversions?
 
The wording 'systematic production' of ammunition was very carefully chosen.

Your reloading bench is the next target, believe it or not, give it a few years and it will happen.

Elections have consequences. Vote this November.
 
Well, I don't claim to know a bunch about import/export laws, and how they effect guns and such, but I do believe if this President is involved with anything related to firearms, then it probably is not to our advantage.

His track record and what he says does make a difference. JMHO.
 
Concrete proof that "common sense regulations" is a complete lie. I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that the number of crimes committed with reloads and the number of gunsmiths who export anything is near zero.

Time to buy a flintlock and a ball mill.
 
Time to buy a flintlock and a ball mill.
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I don't know if you jest or not, but I actually have looked into what I could do to sustain firearms enthusiasm in my family and pass the art down once there is a sin tax on ammo, firearms are registered, etc. Let's just say I REALLY like the idea of a bullet trap to recycle lead and I'm happy to shoot black powder when all else fails... if there isn't a revolution that I actively support if there is confiscation/bans without a constitutional amendment. Were the 2nd to ever be repealed??? Meh... I'll move to Canada and deal with their asinine permitting system.
 
I was only partially joking...

I actually think we're a long way from a total ban on civilian ownership. I can see many, many incremental steps along the way and I have a hard time believing that the anti's will be able to enact them all in my lifetime.

I think there most likely will be a day in my son's life when the U.S. implements Australian style gun control. I still don't think he'll ever be prohibited from owning a ML or buying powder and ball.

If it ever got that bad, owning a flintlock and ball mill would be pointless. The penalty for getting caught with it would make it folly. You would never be able to shoot it anyway without someone hearing and calling Big Brother.
 
Actually,I have milled a number of spheres on a Bridgeport with a rotary table and a boring head.You tilt the mill head and pass the cutter tip through the axis of rotation as you rotate the table.Think,the cutter path of a fly cutter or the boring head is a circle.You can always lay a circle on a sphere.You can make a hemispherical cavity(ball mold) the same way with a square ended end mill.

But,thats a side note.

There is a way of rolling the balls between two discs to reform the sprue,etc into a more true sphere.

Your plan of a flintlock is sound.Cap and ball revolvers,too.

Till the EPA makes lead possession a capital crime.
 
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