I think a Core-Loct is a heck of a bullet. It is the bullet I used with my first rifle, a 30-06, and is the factory round I grab when I get a new rifle I'm not set up to handload for yet. That said, I do load premium bullets in virtually all of my hunting loads, Barnes X, Bear Claw, etc. In the grand scheme of things they are not that much more expensive handloaded and it gives me confidence to know I'm using the best. They are not really needed for my whitetail hunting but I want blood coming out of both sides if I have to track and the premium bullets make this more likely.
Premium vs Regular Ammo for hunting?
- Thread starter DTrain
- Start date
FairWarning
New member
I dropped game long before the glut of "premium" rounds became available, and countless others long before me.
Excellence in bullet technology is to the point today that most any reputable commercial hunting round is more than capable and many have been proven over the years. Marketing strategists however, are always looking for new ways to extract gold. I'm sure the profit margin on 20 "premium" rounds is much higher than 20 "standard" quality rounds.
Excellence in bullet technology is to the point today that most any reputable commercial hunting round is more than capable and many have been proven over the years. Marketing strategists however, are always looking for new ways to extract gold. I'm sure the profit margin on 20 "premium" rounds is much higher than 20 "standard" quality rounds.
Countertop
New member
I shot a spike buck Friday morning at 28 yards with Wal Mart winchester white box value pack 230gr ball in .45 ACP. Deer ran about 10 yards and expired. Small (.45") hole going in the one side of the chest, big (about 1 1/2') hole on the other side where bullet blew out.
Works for me.
Works for me.
I hope no one minds if I revive a thread.
Win73 and Hooligan's posts bring a question to mind. Everyone wants to place a bullet through a deer standing broadside to the hunter, but if - as in Win73's case - you have either a quartering away shot or no shot at all, wouldn't you be best served by a premium bullet? If the round fired by 30-30remchester last year had been used, the result would've been a horribly wounded animal that might have gone too far to be found. For all the jokes here about "Texas heart shots," sometimes it might be that shot or no shot.
Perhaps what you buy with a premium round is simply better quality control?
Win73 and Hooligan's posts bring a question to mind. Everyone wants to place a bullet through a deer standing broadside to the hunter, but if - as in Win73's case - you have either a quartering away shot or no shot at all, wouldn't you be best served by a premium bullet? If the round fired by 30-30remchester last year had been used, the result would've been a horribly wounded animal that might have gone too far to be found. For all the jokes here about "Texas heart shots," sometimes it might be that shot or no shot.
Perhaps what you buy with a premium round is simply better quality control?
The premium bullets might be better. I don't have the experience to say yea or nay. I do know that the 150 grain Remington Corelokt that I have been using in my .30-06 have performed very well on whitetail deer. I have killed several with it. The ones that didn't drop in their tracks left very easy to follow blood trails. The fartherest that any of them went was about a hundred yards.
Win73 ........ great decision on the shot
Two years ago, I had the 'buck of a lifetime' and let him walk because I didn't want to take that quartering shot. I had seen him the year before during archery season twice but could never get him closer than 60 yards.
Anyway, I have been hunting that buck for 3 years now and my neighbors 8 year old killed him opening day
for me and 
for the boy.
My point is regardless of the hunter's ed guys, when you hunt a small area and really good dear are few, best to take the shot presented.......
Two years ago, I had the 'buck of a lifetime' and let him walk because I didn't want to take that quartering shot. I had seen him the year before during archery season twice but could never get him closer than 60 yards.
Anyway, I have been hunting that buck for 3 years now and my neighbors 8 year old killed him opening day
for me and for the boy.My point is regardless of the hunter's ed guys, when you hunt a small area and really good dear are few, best to take the shot presented.......
Choose carefully....
There's a bounty of choices out there--depending on what you label as "premium cartridges"? I have been shooting the original Federal Premium line since their beggining, starting with the 165 gr. Sierra load in the .30-06 to take my first deer. I've shot many calibers using nothing but Hornady Customs, from the .243 to the .300 Weatherby. Weatherby ammo has always been considered "premium", though I only chose the 150 spbt or Barnes X and Nosler Partition in the 165 gr. for certain characteristics.
I have blown apart a Sierra 150 gr. spbt (Federal) at over 250 yards with a 7mm Rem. Mag. in the shoulder of a smallish buck, and have done the same at 75 yards with the Hornady 100 gr. spbt in the .243. Both bucks were dead, but it does concern me. Terminal velocity must be a main consideration in bullet selection if you shoot through a considerable mass of bone, as I always prefer to do. At the same time, though one of my 7mm Mags. shoots the daylights out of those 160 gr. Partitions, I would not especially want to place them through the rib cage at any range.
For the most part, I believe I can make the shot behind the shouder successfully with most any good "standard" bullet design in most calibers. Any chance to break through both shoulders or the center chest head on asks an awful lot of any bullet at high velocities. The neck or spine shot may or may not be as critical. You can't imagine my surprised look as I shot a six point buck years ago at 35 yards with a 240 gr. sp (Remington) in .444 Marlin right into his left shoulder when he came flying right under my stand, heading stright for a large creek and thicket!
The best part is that we now have so many choices out there. Every one of us enjoys particular tastes in shooting and hunting techniques. Now we finally have enough bullet choices to allow us all to be successful--if we do our homework first.
-7-
There's a bounty of choices out there--depending on what you label as "premium cartridges"? I have been shooting the original Federal Premium line since their beggining, starting with the 165 gr. Sierra load in the .30-06 to take my first deer. I've shot many calibers using nothing but Hornady Customs, from the .243 to the .300 Weatherby. Weatherby ammo has always been considered "premium", though I only chose the 150 spbt or Barnes X and Nosler Partition in the 165 gr. for certain characteristics.
I have blown apart a Sierra 150 gr. spbt (Federal) at over 250 yards with a 7mm Rem. Mag. in the shoulder of a smallish buck, and have done the same at 75 yards with the Hornady 100 gr. spbt in the .243. Both bucks were dead, but it does concern me. Terminal velocity must be a main consideration in bullet selection if you shoot through a considerable mass of bone, as I always prefer to do. At the same time, though one of my 7mm Mags. shoots the daylights out of those 160 gr. Partitions, I would not especially want to place them through the rib cage at any range.
For the most part, I believe I can make the shot behind the shouder successfully with most any good "standard" bullet design in most calibers. Any chance to break through both shoulders or the center chest head on asks an awful lot of any bullet at high velocities. The neck or spine shot may or may not be as critical. You can't imagine my surprised look as I shot a six point buck years ago at 35 yards with a 240 gr. sp (Remington) in .444 Marlin right into his left shoulder when he came flying right under my stand, heading stright for a large creek and thicket!
The best part is that we now have so many choices out there. Every one of us enjoys particular tastes in shooting and hunting techniques. Now we finally have enough bullet choices to allow us all to be successful--if we do our homework first.
-7-
>>Win73 and Hooligan's posts bring a question to mind. Everyone wants to place a bullet through a deer standing broadside to the hunter, but if - as in Win73's case - you have either a quartering away shot or no shot at all, wouldn't you be best served by a premium bullet?<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
If you have no shot, then you don't shoot. plain and simple.
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If you have no shot, then you don't shoot. plain and simple.
rantingredneck
New member
There's nothing wrong with a quartering shot if you have the skill to make it. Sounds like it worked out in this case, no? I actually prefer a somewhat quartering shot as the bullet/arrow has more vital area to traverse and thus does more internal damage resulting in a usually quicker kill.
And yes, I'm a hunter's ed instructor.
re: Premium Bullets.........
I've used CoreLokt bullets since I started hunting. In .30-30, .243, .30-06, and .308. They've all performed well. I've never had one not exit, even in .243.
Here's a photo of the exit wound from a small buck I shot with a 150 gr. .308 Core Lokt the day before Thanksgiving.
Another of those quartering shots..........
My 5 year old son and I were in a two man ladder stand when this one came trotting up. I put the crosshairs on him but all I had was his chest and didn't take the shot. My son is saying "Shoot it daddy, shoot it" as the deer is looking up at us from about 20 yds away. He turned to exit the area and gave me the classic quartering shot of behind one shoulder out in front of the other. He ran less than 40 yds leaving one of those blind man blood trails. Worked out nicely......
And yes, I'm a hunter's ed instructor.
re: Premium Bullets.........
I've used CoreLokt bullets since I started hunting. In .30-30, .243, .30-06, and .308. They've all performed well. I've never had one not exit, even in .243.
Here's a photo of the exit wound from a small buck I shot with a 150 gr. .308 Core Lokt the day before Thanksgiving.
Another of those quartering shots..........
My 5 year old son and I were in a two man ladder stand when this one came trotting up. I put the crosshairs on him but all I had was his chest and didn't take the shot. My son is saying "Shoot it daddy, shoot it" as the deer is looking up at us from about 20 yds away. He turned to exit the area and gave me the classic quartering shot of behind one shoulder out in front of the other. He ran less than 40 yds leaving one of those blind man blood trails. Worked out nicely......
Well, I'm not all THAT old, but I can remember when "premium" bullets started getting "common" in factory loaded ammo. Prior to that, it was Remington Core-Locts and such for the most part.
Then one day someone started putting premium bullets in their loads. I remember because I thought it was funny. Why? 'Cause I'd been using those bullets for some time in my handloads.
Now, some years later, "premium" bullets have been "improved" dramatically. The thing is, I still use the old stand-by bullets that I started with, for the most part. Oh, sometimes I load up some Grand Slam bullets for larger critters, but for deer? I've found no benefit in paying the extra for them. The old stand-by SPBT's work great on deer, and they're far less expensive to shoot.
In the end though, you need confidence in your firearm/ammo combination. If paying some extra for the ammo makes you more confidant, then it's probably worth it.
For me? I'll just stick with what's always worked great for me.
Daryl
Then one day someone started putting premium bullets in their loads. I remember because I thought it was funny. Why? 'Cause I'd been using those bullets for some time in my handloads.
Now, some years later, "premium" bullets have been "improved" dramatically. The thing is, I still use the old stand-by bullets that I started with, for the most part. Oh, sometimes I load up some Grand Slam bullets for larger critters, but for deer? I've found no benefit in paying the extra for them. The old stand-by SPBT's work great on deer, and they're far less expensive to shoot.
In the end though, you need confidence in your firearm/ammo combination. If paying some extra for the ammo makes you more confidant, then it's probably worth it.
For me? I'll just stick with what's always worked great for me.
Daryl
I could've started a new thread with a different question. "Do premium bullets perform more consistently then older cup-and-core designs, and is the difference enough to matter?" But putting this into a thread in which most posters are happy enough with what's on sale at the local discounter, but one or two have stories of bullets shattering in a way that would inflict a horribly nonfatal injury on a deer, has its' advantage too: everyone can see the variety of experiences that lead to the question. In the course of lurking, the tentative conclusion I have reached is that premium rounds don't seem to generate the periodic stories of bullet failure that come from older lines of bullets, such as the story from the poster who had a round shatter after a relatively early poster. Todd1700, you remark that you've seen no difference between discount and premium ammunition; does that mean that you've had no failures from cheaper ammunition on deer, or that you've seen premium ammunition fail to function on game as well?
Hog Buster
New member
Deer aren’t that hard to kill with just about any bullet. The truth is that most deer hunters are not marksmen and purchase premium cartridges and bullets in an attempt to get an accuracy and killing power edge.
In 50+ years of deer hunting I have failed to see any difference in killing power between regular bullets and premium ones. If the deer is well shot it dies no matter what bullet you use. A poor hit with any bullet is still just a poor hit and a miss is still Maggie’s Drawers.
If you feel that premium cartridges and bullets give you and edge, by all means use them. Hunting and shooting are just head games, anyway you stack it.
In 50+ years of deer hunting I have failed to see any difference in killing power between regular bullets and premium ones. If the deer is well shot it dies no matter what bullet you use. A poor hit with any bullet is still just a poor hit and a miss is still Maggie’s Drawers.
If you feel that premium cartridges and bullets give you and edge, by all means use them. Hunting and shooting are just head games, anyway you stack it.
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I tend toward hog buster's view...
We had a thread about bullet design, here, a good number of years back. I emailed the Sierra folks, and one of their guys joined in.
I, too, have used the 150-grain SPBT, and had one blow up in a deer's neck at some 30 yards. '06, 26" barrel, so nearly .300 WinMag MV.
In general, the boat-tail bullets don't have as thick a jacket as the flat-base. The Sierra guy said I had driven the bullet 200 or 300 ft/sec too fast for the sort of hit I'd made. His opinion was that a flat-base bullet would not have blown up. Based on a close-range experience with a 165-grain Sierra HPBT, I pretty much agree with that view.
However, since I've killed a fair number of deer with no problems from the Sierra line of bullets, I'm quite pleased with them. Unusual situations often bring about unusual results. To me, 30 yards is unusual.
My father was killing deer all the way out to Ma Bell country with the old 150-grain Hornady Spire Point back before anybody ever heard of a premium bullet. Mostly one-shot kills, since he dearly loved the white spot as an aiming point.
We had a thread about bullet design, here, a good number of years back. I emailed the Sierra folks, and one of their guys joined in.
I, too, have used the 150-grain SPBT, and had one blow up in a deer's neck at some 30 yards. '06, 26" barrel, so nearly .300 WinMag MV.
In general, the boat-tail bullets don't have as thick a jacket as the flat-base. The Sierra guy said I had driven the bullet 200 or 300 ft/sec too fast for the sort of hit I'd made. His opinion was that a flat-base bullet would not have blown up. Based on a close-range experience with a 165-grain Sierra HPBT, I pretty much agree with that view.
However, since I've killed a fair number of deer with no problems from the Sierra line of bullets, I'm quite pleased with them. Unusual situations often bring about unusual results. To me, 30 yards is unusual.
My father was killing deer all the way out to Ma Bell country with the old 150-grain Hornady Spire Point back before anybody ever heard of a premium bullet. Mostly one-shot kills, since he dearly loved the white spot as an aiming point.
Hog Buster
New member
Any of us who have deer hunted for years usually have had some strange experiences with bullet performance.
Years ago while hunting Mule deer in California I used 180 grain Winchester Silver-Tip and Remington Bronze Points in a 30/06. On occasions close broadside shots(50 to 75 Yds.) through the lungs only produced small entrance and exit wounds and a broken rib or two. At the same time 200 to 300 yard quartering away shots sometimes produced small entrance wounds and fist sized exit wounds with either ammo. The bullets in the long shot deer had just about exploded leaving pieces of jacket in the entrails while the close shot ones had total penetration with little or no expansion. Why? I never figured it out.
As Art said, ”Unusual situations often bring about unusual results.”
Years ago while hunting Mule deer in California I used 180 grain Winchester Silver-Tip and Remington Bronze Points in a 30/06. On occasions close broadside shots(50 to 75 Yds.) through the lungs only produced small entrance and exit wounds and a broken rib or two. At the same time 200 to 300 yard quartering away shots sometimes produced small entrance wounds and fist sized exit wounds with either ammo. The bullets in the long shot deer had just about exploded leaving pieces of jacket in the entrails while the close shot ones had total penetration with little or no expansion. Why? I never figured it out.
As Art said, ”Unusual situations often bring about unusual results.”
Traditional cup and core bullets are just swaged together.The lead and jacket are not bonded together.In some cases,internal bands in the jacket interlock the cup and core.Boattail bullets lose some of the cylindrical diameter to the heel.Core/jacket separations are more likely on boattails.Excellent cup and core conventional bullets have performed well for decades. Those bullets and the game are still the same.It works.
But the bullets common to the 60's and 70's were designed for the cartridges of the time.7mm bullets were mostly for 7x57,.264 bullets for 6.5x54 mannlicher ,308 for 30-06,etc.2500,2700,2900 fps.It all worked.The 270 130 gr bullet was just for the .270.Then magnums became popular,and created a problem.The 40 yard splatter shot.Nosler created the partition.Speer made the hot core,soldering the core and jacket together.Now,we have lots of great choices.The same 165 Accubond that might hold together out of a .300 magnum on a close deer might also give a penetration edge for a 308 elk load.
The cup and core bullet did not lose anything.A patched round ball still kills deer as well as it ever did.
But the bullets common to the 60's and 70's were designed for the cartridges of the time.7mm bullets were mostly for 7x57,.264 bullets for 6.5x54 mannlicher ,308 for 30-06,etc.2500,2700,2900 fps.It all worked.The 270 130 gr bullet was just for the .270.Then magnums became popular,and created a problem.The 40 yard splatter shot.Nosler created the partition.Speer made the hot core,soldering the core and jacket together.Now,we have lots of great choices.The same 165 Accubond that might hold together out of a .300 magnum on a close deer might also give a penetration edge for a 308 elk load.
The cup and core bullet did not lose anything.A patched round ball still kills deer as well as it ever did.
I would agree with his assessment, as far as Sierra Bullets are concerned. I used them for a number of years back in the late 1970's through the late 1980's. From a .243, 270, or 7mm mag at top velocities, they left big holes in deer, coyotes, and other stuff I shot.
I used them mostly because that's what was available in my area at that time. When I eventually switched to Speer bullets of the same design, the exit holes shrunk up some, and penetration on larger critters improved some. Combined with similar bang-flop affect on game, it was a winning combination for me.
It's true that I could have slowed them down a bit, but I was hunting some very open country, and wanted to keep the velocity on the higher end to improve trajectory. I use the same bullet design; just a different maker, and it made a big difference for me.
Daryl
To me it's about which load shoots the best groups as most accurate is going to account for a better placed shot. You almost never know what the range is going to be except as a terrain situation that determines general maximum.
It seems like all the bullets are designed with penetration and expansion in mind, I can't remember ever worrying about how the most accurate bullet for my rifle was going to perform, accuracy was the priority. Now getting into dangerous animals like the big bears or African potentiallydangerous ones I'd get into performance specific characteristics for sure.
The tip was one of the variables to me and it seemed like the hollow points have more consistant points. I can remember going through my Federal Match or Premiums looking for the perfect points because those were what I could shoot a cloverleaf with, the ones with dinged tips would be a half inch out flyer. Now V-max type polymer tips make a much better tip.
It seems like all the bullets are designed with penetration and expansion in mind, I can't remember ever worrying about how the most accurate bullet for my rifle was going to perform, accuracy was the priority. Now getting into dangerous animals like the big bears or African potentiallydangerous ones I'd get into performance specific characteristics for sure.
The tip was one of the variables to me and it seemed like the hollow points have more consistant points. I can remember going through my Federal Match or Premiums looking for the perfect points because those were what I could shoot a cloverleaf with, the ones with dinged tips would be a half inch out flyer. Now V-max type polymer tips make a much better tip.
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sc outdoorsman
New member
If you put the shot where it counts they will all work on deer size game. I shoot the federal power shocks out of my .30-06 and 7 mag because they group the best. The furthest I have had to track a deer with these is around 40 yards. My son's 06 likes 165 grain corelokts. Furthest I have had to track one he shot was about the same.
I bought some Federal Sierra game king boattials once. They shot well in my 06. I shot a doe in the ribs about 4" her shoulder at 40 yards. The bullet broke up at impact with a rib and ended up fragmanting throughout the torso. She only went about 30 yards, but I have stayed away from them since. I was concerned about them not penetrating after seeing that.
I bought some Federal Sierra game king boattials once. They shot well in my 06. I shot a doe in the ribs about 4" her shoulder at 40 yards. The bullet broke up at impact with a rib and ended up fragmanting throughout the torso. She only went about 30 yards, but I have stayed away from them since. I was concerned about them not penetrating after seeing that.