Precision Shooting
- Thread starter Poconolg
- Start date
Precision?
100 yard bench rest record is less than .025".
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...possible-new-unlimited-100-yard-nbrsa-record/
100 yard bench rest record is less than .025".
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...possible-new-unlimited-100-yard-nbrsa-record/
Last edited:
Nosler guy
New member
.1322 is the br w record I believe. Average of 5 - 5 shot groups.
If you have an inexpensive factory rifle that shoots 1/2" you're doing great and possibly something is very right with your hand loads.
If you have a run of the mill gas operated sport rifle .556 and you can get it to shoot under an inch I'd say you're doing even better.
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If you have an inexpensive factory rifle that shoots 1/2" you're doing great and possibly something is very right with your hand loads.
If you have a run of the mill gas operated sport rifle .556 and you can get it to shoot under an inch I'd say you're doing even better.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Precision Shooting
Ron
Depends on the rifle but generally speaking at 100 yards on a good day I look for half inch groups with my one custom .308 Winchester rifle. There are rifles I am happy with one inch groups with and finally other rifles where I'll take a three inch to four inch group and be happy so it is really a matter of which rifle. Again, this is what I consider for me and my rifles.
Ron
"Depends" is the answer to most firearm related things. snicker.
Precision means something different to everybody and every discipline. A guy shooting NRA High Power doesn't care what group he gets at 100. He does care about his 800 plus yard groups. Hunters shouldn't care either. Consistency is more important for hunting.
A guy named Mike Stinnett shot a .0077" .30 cal group in 2013. Always wondered how the bench rest guys measure groups that are smaller than the bullet diameter. Jim Carmichel broke the 1973 record with the .1322" group in March 2012.
Precision means something different to everybody and every discipline. A guy shooting NRA High Power doesn't care what group he gets at 100. He does care about his 800 plus yard groups. Hunters shouldn't care either. Consistency is more important for hunting.
A guy named Mike Stinnett shot a .0077" .30 cal group in 2013. Always wondered how the bench rest guys measure groups that are smaller than the bullet diameter. Jim Carmichel broke the 1973 record with the .1322" group in March 2012.
Well I'd say 1" is good and 1/2" or better would be precision . I'd add a couple more things to that . 5 shots at minimum . What ever that group size is . It must be that a minimum of 80% of the time . Some would say 10 shots 100% of the time .
I'm paraphrasing but BartB used to say something like you can only expect your rifle to shoot it's worst group . We all have shot crazy small groups but do you do that every time ? No you don't , none of us do .
I take that to mean if your shot must be with in 1/2 moa but you , your rifle and load only shoot 1/2 moa 1 out of every 10 groups . DON"T TAKE THE SHOT you're not likely going to make that shot .
JeepHammer
Moderator
Not entirely sure what this has to do with reloading, but I don't see an issue with it once in a while...
When I build a bench rifle, it's $5,000 worth of time in the machine shop alone.
That doesn't usually include base parts price.
'Rail' guns start about $15,000 and go up from there QUICKLY.
If you are looking into a more common rifle fired from bags,
It's pretty easy (and cost effective) to get 10 round .223 groups you can cover with a dime (10 cents).
That's mostly matching bullet weight/velocity to the barrel rifling twist rate you are using, and getting the chamber in the correct shape, and the chamber located correctly in front of the bolt.
It's the same for bolt or auto loaders, bolt face square to the chamber/bore,
Barrel bore square to the front of the reciever,
Reciever bore aligned with barrel bore,
Bolt locking up solidly on all lugs so the bolt face STAYS square during the chambering/firing process.
After the mechanics are 'Right',
Then it's up to internal ballistics, external ballistics...
(Terminal ballistics don't much matter when punching paper)
It would help to know application.
We talking factory trim, modified with weight limits, unlimited, outlaw, rail guns...?
When I build a bench rifle, it's $5,000 worth of time in the machine shop alone.
That doesn't usually include base parts price.
'Rail' guns start about $15,000 and go up from there QUICKLY.
If you are looking into a more common rifle fired from bags,
It's pretty easy (and cost effective) to get 10 round .223 groups you can cover with a dime (10 cents).
That's mostly matching bullet weight/velocity to the barrel rifling twist rate you are using, and getting the chamber in the correct shape, and the chamber located correctly in front of the bolt.
It's the same for bolt or auto loaders, bolt face square to the chamber/bore,
Barrel bore square to the front of the reciever,
Reciever bore aligned with barrel bore,
Bolt locking up solidly on all lugs so the bolt face STAYS square during the chambering/firing process.
After the mechanics are 'Right',
Then it's up to internal ballistics, external ballistics...
(Terminal ballistics don't much matter when punching paper)
It would help to know application.
We talking factory trim, modified with weight limits, unlimited, outlaw, rail guns...?
precision_shooter
New member
Precision shooting to me is different than just shooting small groups.
Bench rest records mean nothing when it come to making precise shots.
A tiny group shows that the rifle, ammo, and shooter are up to the task of putting bullet after bullet through nearly the same hole. But that hole can be 1", 5", 10" off the bullseye as long as it's still on target.
Precision shooting is hitting what you're aiming at, the smaller the target the more precise the shot has to be. Take 5 3" dots and put them, spread a few inches apart, on a target 100 yards away. Can you hit all 5 with only 5 shots? Now do the same with 1" dots. Can you hit all 5 with only 5 shots? Now take a 1" dot at 100, 2" dot at 200, 3" dot at 300, etc. so that the targets are 1 moa at each distance. Can you hit each one with one shot?
All of that to me is precision shooting. Not just shooting tiny groups wherever that group may be on the target.
Bench rest records mean nothing when it come to making precise shots.
A tiny group shows that the rifle, ammo, and shooter are up to the task of putting bullet after bullet through nearly the same hole. But that hole can be 1", 5", 10" off the bullseye as long as it's still on target.
Precision shooting is hitting what you're aiming at, the smaller the target the more precise the shot has to be. Take 5 3" dots and put them, spread a few inches apart, on a target 100 yards away. Can you hit all 5 with only 5 shots? Now do the same with 1" dots. Can you hit all 5 with only 5 shots? Now take a 1" dot at 100, 2" dot at 200, 3" dot at 300, etc. so that the targets are 1 moa at each distance. Can you hit each one with one shot?
All of that to me is precision shooting. Not just shooting tiny groups wherever that group may be on the target.
I agree with both of you . Here is three targets that were 300yds away .
Sub 1/2 moa
1/2 moa
The second group I'm much happier with for two reasons . 1) each shot had a completely different POA. 2) The fact I had a different POA for each shot . I say a 3 shot group is more then enough to say I was shooting well
That top targets group is 4" off my POA which was center bullseye for each shot .
I can show you guys many sub moa 300yd groups
The thing is I have just as many that are over MOA shooting the same load .
Sub 1/2 moa
1/2 moa
The second group I'm much happier with for two reasons . 1) each shot had a completely different POA. 2) The fact I had a different POA for each shot . I say a 3 shot group is more then enough to say I was shooting well
That top targets group is 4" off my POA which was center bullseye for each shot .
I can show you guys many sub moa 300yd groups
The thing is I have just as many that are over MOA shooting the same load .
Don Fischer
New member
Someone mentioned 2" at 300yds is good for elk. Maybe so, I had always figured 1 1/2". Actually I like my rifles at 1"- or mostly I'm not happy. But there another side here, once you get down to 2", 1 1/2" or 1"-, your better off not looking for a smaller group. Rather call it goof and do a whole lot of plinking with the rifle and load. I should do that myself but I don't do enough plinking! Probably make me a lot better field shot!
You also need to figure out what style of shooting you are talking about. Are you referring to a benchrest style? Are you talking about an open-country type of style where you would likely be using shooting sticks or a bipod? Or, are you talking about a typical woods scenario where you are shooting from an unsupported standing position?
Precision for each of those means a different thing entirely.
Precision for each of those means a different thing entirely.
Precision Shooting
Thinking about this for a moment or two would the average shooter want accuracy or precision? I guess it depends on how we choose to define each. My take on the terms is pretty simple. Using the below image to show my perspective.
I see a tight group as being precise and see accuracy as unbiased precision. When shooting, even in a fun friendly match, precision is only nice if that precise group is in the 10 ring or the X ring. A sub MOA group in the 5 or 6 ring is not really what we are after. Not to my way of thinking anyway. Different shooters seem to define the terms Precision and Accuracy differently every time the terms come up for or in discussion.
Ron
Thinking about this for a moment or two would the average shooter want accuracy or precision? I guess it depends on how we choose to define each. My take on the terms is pretty simple. Using the below image to show my perspective.
I see a tight group as being precise and see accuracy as unbiased precision. When shooting, even in a fun friendly match, precision is only nice if that precise group is in the 10 ring or the X ring. A sub MOA group in the 5 or 6 ring is not really what we are after. Not to my way of thinking anyway. Different shooters seem to define the terms Precision and Accuracy differently every time the terms come up for or in discussion.
Ron
I'm a hunter who likes to shoot at the range during the off season. If I can put 3 shots into an inch at 100 yards I'm happy. If I can do that any big game animal I miss out to 400-500 yards isn't because the rifle or load isn't accurate enough. And that is farther than I'll likely ever take a shot.
Of course I like to, and often do a little better than that. I could care less what type of groups I get with more than 3 shots.
Of course I like to, and often do a little better than that. I could care less what type of groups I get with more than 3 shots.