Practical Self Defense Use for Rifles?

hounddawg, there are excellent alternatives to rifles for home defense. I don't see where an AR is necessarily a better weapon for the purpose than many other choices--and the OP is trying to justify an AR over any other choice.

And, I guess I could have used a smiley but this is about the gazillionth thread on the subject where folks seem to have given little thought to the subject...
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Actually, I'm not trying to justify the AR in particular. Really this question could apply to any rifle in the AR's catagory, like the AK, Sig 556, or any other semi-auto carbine.

I'm trying to figure out if a semi auto carbine could be used in a self defense scenario beyond the home. I do camp occasionally, and there are cases of panthers and such attacking campers, in which case I'd be pretty well off with an AR. I guess that's a good one. But what else?
 
1. In a non-LE SD situation 5 to 10 seconds is all you have, no more than 5 rounds will be fired. If you need 30 rounds then you need more help than a rifle.
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I never understood the point of this sort of statement. People say it for 2 shot derringers, 5 shot revolvers, 8 shot 1911s, and 15 shot high cap semi-auto pistols. Usually this is justification for not carrying a reload. The caveat is always made that if you need more...followed by some sort of statement like you need more help than a rifle or you are where you should not be, etc.

No more than 5 shots will be fired? Sure, except for all those cases when more than five shots are required to be fired. For example, see http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464062&highlight=self+defense+reload

2. More stopping power yes, but more of a chance that a bystander will be shot and killed.
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Then you should shoot wisely. Gonna use a handgun? Gosh, more chance a bystander will be killed than if you us a blunt force object. So now I guess you won't be using a handgun because there is a greater risk to bystanders, right?

3. Less Recoil, not on this planet, Jupiter maybe. 25 grains of gunpowder produces more recoil than 4 or 5 grains.
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The less recoil is due to being a much heavier gun.

4. Faster followup shots, only in full auto mode. 9mm will have the fastest follow-up times due to the short cartrage. Takes an AR longer to eject the case than I can fire 3 9mm shots.
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As you said, maybe on Jupiter. The AR15 ejects rounds at the same rate in semi-auto as in full auto. If it can beat you in full auto, it can beat you in semi-auto. The bolt assembly does not move more slowly because the gun is being fired in semi-auto.

You may be able to bumpfire your pistol at a high rate of fire, but you can also bumpfire an AR15 at a very high rate of fire as well. You are not likely to be be able to actually pull the trigger on a pistol faster than the AR15 will cycle a round without bumpfiring unless you are saying that you can pull the trigger 10-11 times per second. Even if bump-firing, an AR15 can be bumpfired at over 600 rpm. You are not likely to be able to bumpfire a pistol at 1800 rpm.
 
I'm trying to figure out if a semi auto carbine could be used in a self defense scenario beyond the home. I do camp occasionally, and there are cases of panthers and such attacking campers, in which case I'd be pretty well off with an AR. I guess that's a good one. But what else?
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WheelGunRealGun, you may as well give it up, they already forgot the question.
 
WheelGunRealGun, you may as well give it up, they already forgot the question.
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I think there's a misunderstanding about when I said "quickfollow up shots". I meant follow up shots, as in, how fast you can accurately put shots on target. And I think we can all agree that it's easier to put shots on target faster with a semi automatic carbine in 5.56 than a lightweight handgun such as the Glock 23 or 19. I did NOT mean how fast the gun itself operates. Both go so fast that it's largely irrelevant.
 
I dont think you want to shoot super sonic ammo in the house. It will do a job on your ears. Shot gun or pistol will be loud enough.
 
I dont think you want to shoot super sonic ammo in the house. It will do a job on your ears. Shot gun or pistol will be loud enough.
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What subsonic shotgun loads are you planning on using for self defense? Shooting a lot/most 9mm, .40, .357, etc., you are shooting supersonic ammo. Some .45 acp is supersonic as well.

The supersonic crack is probably the least of your hearing concerns.
 
WheelgunRealgun,
I don't think you are getting all that much useful information here. The bottom line is if you want an AR then get one while you still can, as the gun laws may get more restrictive, soon, espacally if Obama gets re-elected.

I don't have anything against AR's, as I have a couple of them myself, but they are not always the best choice, for home defense or anything else as far as that goes. There is a lot you can do with them, and they are fun to shoot, and you can hang all kinds of gagets on them, from lazers to flashlights, and fancy sights, but in general I find them slower and more akward to get into action quickly then many other weapons, and one shot stops are not that reliable. Still they have their uses and that's good enough reason to buy one you want one.
 
My primary HD is a Mossberg 590., but I do have two rifles as a backup, one an AK, the other an EOtech equipped Robarms XCR. I do think the carbine has a definite place in HD, and can be put to use quite effectively, but I've also learned not to count on any one single piece of equipment. With today's bullets, and reduced velocity, overpenetration can be greatly reduced. Bullets such as Hornady's Vmax's can hit with devastating results, as I've seen with some of the varmints I have dispatched. My advice is to buy the AR. Every home should have at least one.
 
I think that an AR-15 is much, much better then a pistol. The only thing that would beat it under 25 yards would be a shotgun. You only use a pistol if that's all you have or to fight your way to a shotgun or rifle. Anyone that says 8 shots from a 1911 is better then having a shogun or AR is just plain ignorant. Also, as far a hearing damage, who cares! If I'm in a life or death situation I'll take deaf over dead any day!

This should convince you:

WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC - http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=84194
 
Achilles11B is right. You can use a rifle for home defense but you have to train with it a lot. A whole lot. Choose which firearm you want to use to defend your home and loved ones first. Then plan ahead as to where you might expect to meet trouble if you have a home invasion. Once you have determined the other guy's attack plan, make your own plan to defeat him. Then you go practice your reaction plan over and over. Same thing applies with a pistol and shotgun. Any firearm can be used for defensive needs but the key is to practice with that firearm over and over. Once you can smoothly perform your defensive plan, modify it in some fashion and then practice the new plan over and over. Keep doing this until you have all bases covered in your mind.

One other thing: Remember that there is ALWAYS one more bad guy coming at you. Do not relax until you make contact with the police and they can take over the security of the scene.
 
Rifles (and shotguns) of just about any caliber other than .22lr are more than twice as likely to kill your target than pretty much any handgun. They are also far more likely to give a genuine (physical instead of psychological) one-shot-stop than any handgun.

Definitely a very good choice for home defense as long as you get a shorter one so you don't have issues maneuvering or bringing to bear in tight spaces.
 
One thing that people consistently leave out of this discussion is ease of use/loading/unconventional firing positions.

How are you going to keep you shotgun loaded? Crusier ready? Unloaded completely? Fully loaded? How quickly can you get this long gun charged and ready? Ever tried loading/reloading a shotgun under duress?

Are you using a pump? Ever tried cycling a pump while taking low cover or from prone or supine? Ever short stroked a pump? Ever had a double feed? How quickly can you clear a malfunction semi-naked in the dark with a shotgun?

Now what about the above with a rifle?

Personally, I can do all that better with a rifle than I can with a shotgun and I use a shotgun while hunting alot more than I practice with a rifle.

I can keep the magazine completely separate from the rifle if needed and charge it quickly and efficiently even in complete darkness with significantly more economy of motion than I can with a shotgun.

I can clear anything other than a bolt over base malfunction in an AR with a simple modified SPORTS and it is something that I can intentionally create while training and do iterations on. I find shotgun malfunctions other than failure to fire are difficult to setup intentionally.

I can fire a rifle from all sorts of strange contorted positions without being knocked off balance/busting my nose on my thumb/hand slipping off forend/etc.

I encourage you to try out some of these things, with an unloaded weapon/dummy rounds and see what your personal performance is.

Remember, when the ball drops, it won't be on a square range with you on your hind legs at "low ready" shooting head high zombie targets.
 
If you have a good, common-sense layered security plan, then there are a lot of cases where a long gun (rifle or shotgun) will be practical for self-defense use; because the whole purpose of such a system is to give you time to prepare, call 911, barricade, access a long gun, etc.

If you have the opportunity to access a long gun, it will usually be a better choice than a pistol, which is carried because of its convenience, not because of its power or accuracy.

It seems to me that usually when we have these threads, the real discussion is moved from the flaws in the underlying security plan to a choice of what weapon to use after those flaws have been exploited. It is like discussing what kind of fire extinguisher is best for the kitchen after you've spilled 10 gallons of gasoline over a 100lb pallet of class C fireworks in the dining room and then lighted the candles.
 
it's a very decent choice for a ranch gun. it fits easily in the truck, in a saddle holster or strapped to a gun rack on the four wheeler so just about any time you are riding around checking on troughs, riding fencelines, whatever and you run into a wolf, coyote, mountain lion etc then you'll have a very good rifle for anti predator operations. it also makes a god camp gun but beyond that, home defense, and plinking the AR has very little practical application until the communists, zombies, anarchists and aliens start fighting for control of your home town ;)
 
kraigwy, for home defense, the AR advantage isn't limited to range.
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But it is limited to availability. How many set around the house with an AR in your pocket.

The best is what's available at any given time. How many people take their rifle to an ATM machine, or a Connivance Store, or while setting on your couch watching TV? Is your AR within reach right now, while typing on the computer?

Some say that if you knew you were to be in a shooting situation, get a rifle. I say if I know I'm going to be in a shooting I would be somewhere else.

I'm not a soldier any more, I'm not a cop any more. I do believe in self defense and I believe it would rare if I need a SD weapon, but if I do I doubt it will be while I'm setting around holding a rifle or shotgun.

Instead it will come as a thief in the night, and I'll have to use what is within reach, that being the revolver in my pocket.

Knowing that, that's what I practice with. That's what's within reach 24/7, no matter where I'm at.
 
I buy guns for wants and other needs. SD is ALWAYS near the bottom of the list. You want and AR then buy the AR, they are fun and on the rare chance that you need a SD gun and it's the closest gun at hand then use it. If not the closest, use whatever is.

LK
 
Some say that if you knew you were to be in a shooting situation, get a rifle. I say if I know I'm going to be in a shooting I would be somewhere else.
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Finally, the voice of reason.

Jim
 
kraigwy, I agree that pistols have more utility on a day to day basis.

OTOH, I have dogs. It is very conceivable that I might receive enough heads up on a problem that I could retrieve the rifle from the gun safe; if so, I would.

I wouldn't have to retrieve a handgun, normally, as I usually have one on my person.

I practice with both (as I'm sure you do) and am comfortable using either (as I'm sure you are).
 
kraigwy, I agree that pistols have more utility on a day to day basis.
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I won't agree with that. The only thing a pistol is best or even very good at compared to it's longer counterparts is SD carry and what's utilitarian about that? Actually that's very limited. On a day to day basis I'll take shotguns and rifles over handguns for I "use" those ten or twently fold over handguns.

LK
 
kraigwy, I don't worry much about home defense or home invasion. There's no way on God's green earth that anybody can make it through that zig-zag path through the crap my wife has stacked on the front porch without making more racket than opening the door on Fibber McGee's hall closet. :D

And the back door is worse...

Hard to shoot when you're busting a gut laughing...
 
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