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Practical considerations in closing the "loophole"
- Thread starter spacecoast
- Start date
Like pretty much every law, closing the so-called "gun show loophole" would depend on the cooperation of law-abiding citizens; don't see the Crips and Bloods dropping into an FFL to swap nines around ... short of registration of all guns, again dependant on citizens to comply, the only way 5-0 would know you got a gun without properly transferring it would be if you committed a crime with it and then got caught ... there aren't enough cells in the world to hold all the folks who would be in violation ...
And hoping Glenn is right ...
And hoping Glenn is right ...
Spent the morning listening to the Bloomberg academic get-together with them talking about studies on Brady Bill etc. Wasn't around if/when they got to AWB. They pointed out that the study showed no effect whatsoever; but this meant more gun control was needed.
The terminology they used was the "private sale loophole".
The terminology they used was the "private sale loophole".
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
That was the conclusion from the now classic Koper and Roth study that showed no effect of the AWB.
The reasons it failed:
1. The ban only affected cosmetics and equally efficacious guns were continued to be produced - so the ban is stupid or tighten it up to whack all semis.
2. The existence stocks could supply any current level of criminality - so confiscate all guns and mags.
Heard it at the conference where they presented it for the DOJ.
Concluding we don't know if bans work as we really didn't ban and confiscate.
The reasons it failed:
1. The ban only affected cosmetics and equally efficacious guns were continued to be produced - so the ban is stupid or tighten it up to whack all semis.
2. The existence stocks could supply any current level of criminality - so confiscate all guns and mags.
Heard it at the conference where they presented it for the DOJ.
Concluding we don't know if bans work as we really didn't ban and confiscate.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
There was a year or two where I did a considerable amount of face to face trading. Buy a gun, shoot it for a while, see something I liked on a message board, trade.
Over and over again.
I was able to familiarize myself with many guns and came out about even when it was all over with if you don't count cost of travel and search time.
If I had to pay a transfer fee every time I traded I never would have been able to afford it. $30 a transfer around me now. Would have cost me hundreds of dollars more. Not to mention I would have had to get the person to meet me at an FFL during business hours, etc. What happens if they get a delay? Leave it with FFL? COme back in three days? What a nightmare.
Over and over again.
I was able to familiarize myself with many guns and came out about even when it was all over with if you don't count cost of travel and search time.
If I had to pay a transfer fee every time I traded I never would have been able to afford it. $30 a transfer around me now. Would have cost me hundreds of dollars more. Not to mention I would have had to get the person to meet me at an FFL during business hours, etc. What happens if they get a delay? Leave it with FFL? COme back in three days? What a nightmare.
D.W. Drang
New member
MLeake said
Since returning to TFL after a several year hiatus, I have noticed a whole helluva lot of posts that can be summarized as "I'm OK with statist thugs walking all over the Constitutional Rights of other people, even if it does mean I have to jump through higher and narrower hoops."I am appalled at the number of, "Well, I could live with..." threads and posts, lately.
Last edited by a moderator:
Newly manufactured firearms get a paper trail attached at birth almost just like people. But in most states the trail ends shortly after sale to a authorized buyer. The FFL is required to make a check to verify that the buyer isn't a prohibited possessor and then the deal is done.
The only way to see that individuals follow the same requirements as FFL holders is to maintain the paper trail similar to a property deed or a vehicle title. But along with this you would have to retroactively require the registration of all firearms and we know what that fight will be like.
In the end it's an empty gesture that will do nothing to "prevent" anyone from doing anything. As has been said, the criminal will break all the laws that stand in the way of getting what he wants. These laws prevent nothing more then masking the real causes of the problem and preventing rational people from taking positive steps to mitigate these causes.
I am leaning toward the simple concept that our brains only function properly when the chemicals are right and balanced. The medical institutions of our country know this but are so proud and idealistic, or simply greedy, that they will not admit it and instead point ineffectual fingers at violent games and movies and of course, the Devil's tools.
That's how I see it from my point of view.
The only way to see that individuals follow the same requirements as FFL holders is to maintain the paper trail similar to a property deed or a vehicle title. But along with this you would have to retroactively require the registration of all firearms and we know what that fight will be like.
In the end it's an empty gesture that will do nothing to "prevent" anyone from doing anything. As has been said, the criminal will break all the laws that stand in the way of getting what he wants. These laws prevent nothing more then masking the real causes of the problem and preventing rational people from taking positive steps to mitigate these causes.
I am leaning toward the simple concept that our brains only function properly when the chemicals are right and balanced. The medical institutions of our country know this but are so proud and idealistic, or simply greedy, that they will not admit it and instead point ineffectual fingers at violent games and movies and of course, the Devil's tools.
That's how I see it from my point of view.
Full trail is a downpayment on registration (closing the sale loophole) which is downpayment on fees and confiscation in future. The FFL thing itself was a initially a big reach, now guns not sold through these federally licensed dealers is a "loophole".
The incremental nature of gun control in the US can be measured in terms of the effect of the late-game steps, not the meaningless controls it takes on the way there.
The incremental nature of gun control in the US can be measured in terms of the effect of the late-game steps, not the meaningless controls it takes on the way there.
The kicker in the Feinstein proposal is requiring all existing "assault weapons" must be registered under the NFA.
What I see happening is that the vast majority of applicants will be found to be not eligible for some reason. At that time the weapon will be forfeited. It is a back door method of confiscating the grandfathered weapons.
As a retired Army Officer whose duties involved threat assessments of terrorist, I wrote papers which detailed a variety of potential actions. These assignments make me a threat per DHS.
Does this disqualify me from owning a grandfathered rifle?
What I see happening is that the vast majority of applicants will be found to be not eligible for some reason. At that time the weapon will be forfeited. It is a back door method of confiscating the grandfathered weapons.
As a retired Army Officer whose duties involved threat assessments of terrorist, I wrote papers which detailed a variety of potential actions. These assignments make me a threat per DHS.
Does this disqualify me from owning a grandfathered rifle?
Alabama Shooter
New member
As a retired Army Officer whose duties involved threat assessments of terrorist, I wrote papers which detailed a variety of potential actions. These assignments make me a threat per DHS.
Really? I'd really like to see that. If you don't want to post it feel free to PM me.