PPK

B

Blues_O_Malley

Inactive
Dear all,

I am a real (REAL!!!) newbie. (Almost to ashamed to asked at the store.)
Now, I am boared with my airgun and want to spoil myself a little.

I am very interested in the PPK (or PPKs). Can somebody please tell me the difference between a .22, .32 and .38 caliber? (I always thought that the PPK is a 7.65 mm gun)

I also wonder, why they use those (and other) numbers to express the caliber.
It is a little bit confusing.

Can you recommend this gun to me?

Thanks a lot for your help
Blues
 
The PPK/S in .380 is one of the finest small handguns in the world. Period. If you can afford to get one - I recomend them highly.
 
Dear Blues
George is right. The PPK is a well made pistol. I'd also suggest, however, that you visit your local, well stocked gun shop and look at the PPK along side a number of the others small-frame pistols. I went to purchase an PPK one day but decided that it didn't fit my hand very well and ended up with a Bersa. It did fit my hand and cost a lot less.
As for your caliber question, I take it that you're looking for what the difference is in size? Well, I'm no expert but the caliber is stated in tenths of an inch. .22, then, is just shy of 1/4 of an inch. .50, then, is 1/2 an inch. The big difference, however, is the cartridge size. Ask the salesman to show you a .22 and a .223 cartridge side by side. While the bullets are almost identical in diameter, you'll notice a slight difference in the cartridge size.

Finally, approach purchasing guns like any other consumer purchase. Check up on any brand you are considering. The internet has tons of sites for that purpose. Search this website for info on a particular pistol for other's opinions, and read, read, read. An informed purchase will eliminate problems down the road.
For What It's Worth

Rome
 
Word of caution on the PPK/PPKS - the American made versions ar very well known to have problems. SOme are fine, while others jusy never function properly.

A German made Walther, on the other hand, is a flawless weapon. If you do choose the PPK/PPK/S, I hihgly recommend you locate a German made model.

I have owned both so this is first hand experience.

CMOS

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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
 
In general with modern cartridges the number (either metric or english) referrs to the diameter of the bullet/bore. It rarely has anything to do with the size of the cartridge. As Rome said - a .22 rim fire and a .223 use almost the same size bullet but are markedly different in cartridge size. If you can, compare a .22 Short with a .22 Swift rifle cartridge.

Sometimes the number and diameter are more loosely related than other times. The older the cartridge the more loose this relationship is apt to be. But there again - not always. The 9 mm Luger uses a .355 bullet and it's lineage goes back to somewhere around 1902 or 1905.

The .357 Mag normally uses a bullet of .357 diameter. The .38 Spec. uses a bullet of .357 diameter as well. On the other hand moder loads for the 38/40 and the .41 Long Colt generally use bullets of approx. .403 diameter. (The "40" in 38/40 refers to 40 grains of black powder.)

The "name" after the number may refer to the developer (company or person) or may just be a name somebody gave it, or refer to the firearm for which it was originally chambered.

For pistol cartridges - if there are 2 numbers, say 9 X 23 - the second number usually refererences case length. For American Rifle cartridges this is not usually the case. For example the 7mm/06 refers to a 7mm bullet used in a necked down 30/06 case.

Short answer (which is what I probably should have started with) is that the number generally relates to bullet/bore diameter. Otherwise there has been no consistantly followed convention in the nameing of cartridges.

With newer guns buy the ammunition that matches what is shown somewhere on the gun. (9mm, .38 Special, .357 Mag., .45 ACP and so on) Some rounds go by two different names (.380 Auto is the same as .380 ACP is the same as 9mm Kurtz). If you aren't sure - ask someone who's knowledge you respect.

As a rule, until you are higher on your learning curve you should be careful of some older guns (those well past the half century mark) as many will accept modern rounds which are unsafe in the old guns. For example a .38 Special +P load will chamber in many of the old .38 Long Colt handguns. .38 Super rounds are identical in dimensions to the .38 ACP - but the .38 Super is a much higher pressure round.

I hope the above helps. I know the system sounds somewhat confusing - because it is.



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Jim Fox
 
And welcome to the hobby/life style/sport and TFL. :) Stick around here and feel free to ask any questions you may have. We were all newbies at one time and there is no such thing as a dumb question. We are all glad to help.

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Gunslinger

TFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
Ah, a fine choice. I've been carrying/collecting Walthers for some time now, either a pre-war PPK or a P99, depending on the situation, and find them to be well-designed, well-made guns that will provide years of excellent service given proper care.

The PPK/S is a PPK slide on a PP frame. The grip is a quarter-inch longer to comply with the 1968 Gun Control Act. You get one extra round in the magazine.

As you've no doubt learned, some Walthers were made in the USA by Interarms under license from Walther in Germany - they are clearly stamped "Made in USA" under the Walther banner on the left side of the slide. German-made guns (post war) will be stamped "Made in Germany" on the right side of the slide. Traditionally, German-made Walthers are considered to be of higher quality. I do not own an American-made Walther so I can't say for sure, but the general consensus is that some American-made PPKs have a problem with jamming, especially the .380 versions.

Of course, the German-made Walthers tend to run about $50-$100 higher, for used examples, in most shops. But if you do decide to buy an American-made Walther, put at least 200 rounds through it before you trust your life to it. If it jams even once in 200 rounds, spend a few extra bucks to have it worked over by a competent smith who specializes in Walthers. There are several who do this - write later on if you need their addresses.

Now is a good time to buy Walthers, the prices have been rising steadily since Interarms went out of business and their importation - via Smith&Wesson - is uncertain, at best. Get one now if you want it.

Used German PPKs in .380 tend to be about $400 here in the South, American PPKs run about $350. The .32ACP (7.65mm) version tends to be about $50 cheaper. There are several new, hot loads for the .32 if you decide to go that route. The .22LR version tends to be somewhat rate and most examples around here tend to be in the $500 range.

There is a wealth of info on Walthers at the unofficial Walther homepage:
http://geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2188/index.html

Regards

Strayhorn
 
Welcome to a whole new world. I don't have any advice to add. But since you are a newbie, I'd pick your gun store very carefully, or ask about good stores in your area to other people on this board. You se, most dealers are truly interested in helping you choose the right weapon. Others will try to take advantage of your inexperience. It happened to me when i bought my first gun. Man, did I get screwed. You're doing the right thing by posting questions on this board. My adice would be to ask questions, research prices, and don't let the guy behind the counter talk you into something you don't want. If you feel you're getting a raw deal, go somewhere else. I learned my lesson the hard way.
 
These are beautiful little handguns. They make us all think we are James Bond. is there any drawback? Yes, these are among the harder pistols to shoot well. I do not recommend them for newbies. I think you would be better off with a revolver to start. Regards, Richard.
 
The 7.65 Browning caliber is called the .32 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) in the U.S. The 9mm Browning Short is called the .380 ACP here.

The major pistol difference other than caliber is that the .22 version does not have a loaded chamber indicator.

Jim
 
As usual, the PPK police are out in force again.

My Interarms made domestic stainless Walther PPK in .380 will shoot a group the size of your fist or smaller at a distance of 25 feet...every time I feed it a clip. I only shoot full metal jacket variety ammo through it (I personally think penetration matters more with smaller rounds than does an expanding wound channel, so I use the FMJ's).

Every time there is a PPK thread, the same people log on to re-count various nightmares with domestic made Walthers. "If it's not made in Germany then it's not worth owning" seems to be their rallying cry.

I love my Walther. I keep it clean and I feed it Full Metal Jacket Fiochhi and/or S&B ammo. My eleven year old fires it regularly at the range without either difficulty or pain. No I've ever met at the range or at the various gun shops I frequent has ever complained about the supposedly unreliable domestic Walther.

It's a beautiful gun, accurate enough to stake your life on, and an excellent carry gun. Enjoy.

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Take the long way home...
 
Blues_O_Malley, as this is your first, let me echo what others have said and welcome you to TFL and hope that you stick around on a regular bases. To borrow something said to me by TheBluesMan, membership in TFL costs members nothing and it has industry leaders, certified trainers, police, military, newbies, and everything in between; even a curmudgeon or two. Members are located all across the planet and can share ideas, opinions, experiences, successes, failures, and even jokes -- a really amazing place to hang out on the internet.

That said, let me makes some comments with regard to the PPK. First, you need to ask yourself why you really want to buy this gun. If this is your dream gun (everyone should have a 'dream gun' or two or three or a dozen) and you are buying it just for fun, I would suggest that you get the .22LR. .22LR ammo is far cheaper to shoot than .32 or .380 by a factor of three or four times (or more) and everybody's first gun should be a .22LR -- the recoil is as mild as you can get making it a lot funner to shoot when you're first starting out.

If, on the other hand, you are buying this gun for concealment/self defense, then I would suggest that you may want to consider other alternatives to the PPK. For example, Kahr has a pistol called the MK9 which is almost the same size as the PPK but which shoots the more powerful 9mm-Parabellum. They also have an MK40 model, which is the same size as the MK9 but shoots a .40S&W -- however, I feel that that is too powerful a round to shoot accurately out of such a small gun.

I realize that some countries in Europe still use a .32 to protect their boarders but for self defense purposes, I would recommend something with greater stopping power. This is not to say the a .32 (or even a .22LR) can not kill. It can and it can kill very quickly but killing and stopping are not always the same thing.

I'm reminded of a story that I posted here once before about a woman who shot her attacker with five rounds of .25ACP. Within less than five minutes he was dead. However, before he died, he strangled her to death as well. A bullet that hit him in the leg killed him and it killed him quickly but it did not stop him. That's the difference.

For self defense purposes, you want something with high stopping power. If you still want the PPK for concealment/self defense, then definitely get the .380ACP since out of all the calibers offered, this has the best stopping power.

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
Gremlin,
Thanks for your post with postive things to say about american made PPKs. I bought a new one a few months ago on a whim, I always wanted one (must be the James Bond thing) and found a good price. I got home from the store and checked TFL for feedback and it was negative on american PPKs. I have been thinking of selling because all of the negative posts, I refuse to own inferior guns. I have shot about a hundred rounds through it without any problems. I think I will keep it.
 
Blues:

Please, Please, look at the Sig Sauer P232 before you plunk the cash down on an American-made PPK jamamatic.

I had one but it was quickly sold due to the fact that it jammed constantly even when dripping with oil.

The Sig is accurate and reliable, Please look at the 232.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Blues --

I second what will says about the Sig 232. it's a great gun. I own it's earlier version, Sig 230, and I love it. The 232 is a great .380. You should be able to find one for about $375. Also, if you can find the 230 at a good price, buy it. It's basically the same gun as the 232. Go to www.sigarms.com for info.
 
I heard the Sig Sauer P230 was better than the P232. Regards,
FUD]
fudeagle.gif

Share what you know, learn what you don't.
 
If you get the PPK 380 in stainless steel can I come over and go shooting with you, as I have always wanted a Walther PPk, But have not got one. But I will someday.

You cant go wrong with a Walther's

TonyZ

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www.vote.com
also for gun accessorys. http://gungoodies.com
 
Fud --

I don't know whether or not the 230 is better than the 232. The only differences I can see is that the 232 has better sights and a thicker grip than the 230. Does anyone else know of ny differences?
 
Icopy, my wife's cousin's husband has both and he prefers the P230 -- says it points and feels better in the hand.
 
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