POW's in Kosovo

Having been in the US Army relatively recently, I can almost assure you that this 3 man patrol DID NOT have a GPS unit with them, furthermore, the last thing they'd be doing while being fired on would be checking to see how many active satelites they were receiving, if you get my drift. The staff Sergeant that was likely "commanding" this fire team probably havd minimal training and almost no authority to call in support. While there is a high percentage chance that the platoon had a GPS reciever, it was likely close to the Pl Sgt. or Leader.

The person who needs to be talked to here, IMHO, is the 2LT who let his men get away from him and didn't lead his platoon over to wherever they were and even attempt a rescue.
 
Rob;Shortly after I posted about the GPS the news-MSNBC I think-announced that the patrol did have it. My military service predated the GPS and I cant speak to current military doctrine or practices.If three men with only individual weapons and no fire support are sent to patrol that close to a hostile border then things have changed a lot.

It sounds like the three were involved in a drill which included visiting an OP on a regular basis and that they expected no unfriendly interference. In the prevailing situation that was at least unwise.It also appears that because of their regular schedule the bad guys were waiting.
I know that I am speculating,but thats how it looks.


------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
The present situation in Kosovo reminds me of this crazy card game the Cajuns play down here in Louisiana called Boure' (pronounced boo-ray).
It's a gambling game that can start out as a small stakes fun and can quickly escalate into someone losing the farm. The players have to bid on how many tricks they think they can take in a hand. The player who bids, and wins the most tricks takes the pot. If there is no clear winner, the pot goes unclaimed. If a player fails to make his bid, he has to match the pot, that's called a boure'. Needless to say, a few hands without a winner can result in a pretty sizeable pot. Inexperienced players who have boure'd into this growing pot often go "chasing their boure'". They look at how much they have "invested" and gamble more and more in an effort to win it back regardless of what cards they're holding in their hand. These are the players that get cleaned out.
The kindest thing I can say about Clinton's strategy in Kosovo is that it's inexperienced. We've anted up in what we thought was going to be a small stakes game. We've been boure'd by Milosevic and the pot is growing. I hear more and more people now using the rationale that we've got too much invested in the game to walk away now. We are on the verge of "chasing our boure'" by introducing ground troops. After we lose a few of those, are we going to match the pot again and again? Are we going to build another wall in D.C. with the names of 55,000 more Americans?
A smart player knows when to fold his hand, take his losses and leave the table. I'm afraid we don't have any smart players at this game.
 
The report I heard was that the "Patrol" had a GPS reciever, but not the 3 man group.

That is the thing, the 3 guys in a Hummer were not the entire "patrol". The platoon was sent to the border area and somehow got broken up into smaller units.
 
Rob;
My original question was-Who is calling the shots?
We all know that with the air strikes the entire area could be presumed to be hostile.
When you put people at risk the expected result has to be worth the loss of life.
It has been reported that the mission was to see if Albanians were being mistreated at the border crossing.
I can sit here in Natchez MS and be sure that the Albanians were indeed being mistreated.
I do not know for certain what the mission was but I would hope that it was real important.
Back to the GPS-it was reported that each vehicle had one.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Ed:
According to a Reuters report on 3/31:
"The soldiers were traveling in one of a group of military vehicles that split up in a rough, mountainous area but maintained radio contact with one another.
The missing soldiers radioed that they had come under ''small-arms fire and said they were surrounded,'' a defense official said. ``There was nothing more heard from the patrol,'' the official added.
The soldiers were part of a group assigned to protect a British-led NATO Allied Rapid Reaction Corps group in Macedonia that would have entered Kosovo as a peacekeeping force if a peace agreement had been reached."

And from MSNBC:
“NATO said the three were on patrol near the border Wednesday, acting as lookouts for a contingent of NATOinitially stating they were about three miles inside Macedonia at the time, acknowledged later that their exact location at the time was uncertain.”


[This message has been edited by DHH (edited April 10, 1999).]
 
More card game theory: Is it possible that the three were sent into an unsecured area in order to justify upping the stakes on our side? Whatever Americans may think of armed conflict in unpronouncable foreign lands, it's always easier to sell escalation at home if some of "our boys" are in danger.

Just a thought...

db
 
Rich, you are so right. As I've listened to the posturing about our POW's, it made me think of a kid who complains the bully is not playing by the 'rules'. Yes, there are some rules in war, although I've always found the entire concept somewhat surreal. However, for our leaders to act outraged that the Serbs would make this move seems absurd. We're bombing the hell out of these guys every day. I'm not making excuses for the Serbs, but how would you react? 'Oh, we can't touch those guys ... they might be 100 feet over the border?' How naive.
 
MESSAGES OF SUPPORT

Southwestern Bell and Pacific Bell Internet services have created free e-mail addresses for families of the three American soldiers now held in Yugoslavia.
Those wanting to send messages of support can e-mail them to the addresses listed below.

Staff Sgt. Christopher Stone ssoldier@swbell.net
Spc. Steven M. Gonzales tsoldier@swbell.net
Staff Sgt. Andrew A. Ramirez casoldier@pacbell.net

Source: SBC Communications Inc.

(San Antonio Express-News, Saturday, April 3, 1998, pg 4C)
 
My local source tells me that I have been all wrong looking at this as a military mistake. He says the three men were Peace Keepers and probably had no ammunition and that there is no air or artillery in the theater.
Of course Im dated.The last lesson I had on tactics was to ALWAYS picket the horses downwind.
Times sure have changed!

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
San Antonio Express-News Apr 5th, pg 9A.

U.S. generals questioned the plan for bombing

By Bradley Graham, Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- In the weeks before NATO launched its air campaign against Yugoslavia, U.S. military chiefs expressed deep reservations about the Clinton administration's approach to Kosovo and whether bombing alone would achieve its political aims, according to sources familiar with these events.

The most senior generals, meeting in closed-door session in Pentagon's secure "tank" room, argued the administration should use more economic sanctions and other non-military levers to compel Belgrade to make peace in the rebellious Serbian province before resorting to air strikes.

They complained about what they see as the lack of a longterm vision for the Balkans and questioned whether U.S. national interests there are strong enough to merit a military confrontation. ...

Led by Gen. Hugh Shelton, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, ..., the four-star service commanders ... challenged in particular the "domino theory" being pressed in interagency discussions by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright."

"Losing" Kosovo, she and her allies in the discussions maintained, would lead to wider destabilization in the Balkans that sooner or later would damage U.S. interests in Europe -- so better to act before it was too late.

Ultimately, the chiefs agreed unanimously last month to go along with airstrikes, embracing the administration's view that U.S. leadership in NATO has to be preserved and the looming humanitarian catastrophe in Kosovo has to be addressed, the sources said.....

The chiefs are understood to be wary of recommending ground forces, worried this will evolve into yet another open-ended commitment of U.S. troops in a foreign trouble spot.

At the same time, if a political decision were made to send ground units to combat Yugoslav troops, the service leaders have stressed they would need a large force from the beginning.

"... if you're going to go with the ground option, let's not screw around, let's go with what needs to be done to get the job done," one general said.
....
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There you have it, folks. To some degree, this renews my faith in the military. They caved in only under the Constitutional concept of civilian control.

Madeline Aldumb has tried to entangle our military forces before in dumb adventures with no goal and no end (according to Colin Powell).

President Clinton apparently wants to prove he is the "Big Man" so he sends "the little people" off to die.

It's a political war only! No goals, no strategy, no way of determining victory, no exit plan, no end in sight.

I wish one of his mistresses would pull a Bobbit on him....

Isn't it interesting that these scheisskopfs are the Vietnam War protesters of the past. And we veterans are the current war protesters. (Realizing we are not alone....)

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited April 06, 1999).]
 
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