powder selection for 45 auto

S

Shadow9mm

New member
so I am getting back into 45 auto after a little over 12yrs. I have a lot more powder options at my disposal than I did then.

AA #7
CFE Pistol
HP-38
Power Pistol
Clays

Not sure exactly where I want to start. Will be using 230g berry's plated for practice ammo. I am toying with the idea of loading each of them up and shooting start to max. Ensure function, get a very rough idea on velocity, and get a feel for the recoil of the powders in comparison to each other.

Or should I just pick a powder and go with it since I don't really have any velocity based performance goals in mind just to get me something to practice with.

On a side note, the gun is a 3rd gen G30, which has a 3.77in barrel, a bit on the short side for 45, so I am anticipating some velocity loss.

Compiled a powder matrix with what I have for comparison

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From my G30S, I've been mostly shooting clays (trying to use up what I have, but it seems to be a bottomless bottle):

200 Grain FP Plated, 4.2 gr Clays 808fps avg., sd of 17.5

I have Winclean 244 and here's the numbers for both 200 & 230 gr bullets:
200 Grain FP Plated, 5.8 gr WC244 814 fps, sd of 8.7
200 Grain Gold Dot, 5.8 gr WC244 845 fps, sd of 14.11
230 Grain FP Plated, 5.5 gr WC244 781 fps, sd of 9.9

I've also shot PP, but have no data on it. It did seem to have a little more pop to it than WinClean and definitely more than Clays. Clays is pretty tame, just a gentle push for recoil.
 
H 38 is a clone of Winchester 231, and if you are looking for soft loads, 4.5g behind your 230 Berry's will work fine. This power produces a dirty load at low power loads, so be aware of that.
I have gone to VV 320 for my Bullseye stuff, much cleaner, although a lot more expensive.:cool:
 
there's pros and cons to each powder. In my experience
HP-38 is sooty but soft.
Power pistol is snappy with large fireballs but provides top end velocities
#7 tends to use a lot more powder but produces good velocity
CFE pistol is low flash and moderate on recoil, a bit sooty but cleans up easily.

but at this point I have around 50 round of factory ammo so I need more. That's one range outings worth with none to spare.

I'm leaning towards trying all my powders just to get a rough idea on velocity and how they feel and perform in the gun.

Got my press all set up and dies in it. got all the primers nocked out and they are doing a final tumble for 1hr now. then it will be time to size and flare them all and start putting primers in.
 
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Note: Loads are all from within published data. However Berry's recommended a COL of 1.237, however after plunk testing I adjusted to 1.230 to allow for more wiggle room. I am using federal champion small rifle primers as I only have a few odds and ends of small pistol primers left. I have been using small rifle for a while now without issue.

Well I decided to go all out a and test them all. Planning to hit the range tomorrow, see how they shoot, run the max charge over the chronograph, and pick a powder.

G30 3.77in barrel
Speer 45 auto brass (small primer hole)
Federal Champion Small rifle primers
Berrys 230g plated round nose
COL 1.230

Clays
1 x 3.7g
5x 4.0g

AA #7
1x 8.5g
1x 9.0g
1x 9.5g
5x 10.0g

CFE Pistol
1x 6.0g
1x 6.5g
5x 7.0g

HP-38
1x 5.0g
1x 5.5g
5x 6.0g

Power Pistol
1x 7.1g
1x 7.6g
5x 8.1g
 
Well... Made it to the range. Testing did not go as planned. However I now have proof that 45 auto is better than both 9mm and 223/5.56. I have managed to shoot my chronograph with both in years past with no major problems. However 45 auto killed it dead.

I did get a little data before I shot it.

Factory winchester white box 230g 6 rounds, avg 771, sd 19.2, es 45
Clays 4.0g, 4 rounds, avg 720fps, SD 8.12, ES 18. Recoil was acceptable.

AA #7, 1 round each
8.5g 691fps
9.0g 781fps
9.5g 780fps

first round of 10.0g of AA#7 ended my chrono.

Notes:
Clays and HP-38 felt the best recoil wise. CFE Pistol felt a little stout. Both AA#7 and Power pistol made my hand sting with the recoil. Very stout.
 
No Help from me lol the only powder you have listed that I have is AA #7 use that only in 9mm. I Only use Bulleyes and Titegroup. I know Bullseye isnt listed in your powder selection but it has been go to for 45 ACP since like 1911 I think if you have a chance pick up a pound.

As you listed above AA 7 really fills the case, bulleyes with a 230 plated bullet probably land you around 4.3 to 4.8 off the top of my head you use half as much powder.
 
Went with hp-38 for now. It felt the best while shooting. Good punch but it did not make my hand sting. Once i get a new chrono i will test these loads again.
 
Use a lot of hp-38 for loads in multiple calibers, usually lighter loads except 9mm, and very satisfied with it. It seems to be pretty picky with slight powder charge changes. Am using for AA-7, but only for full power 230 grain jacketed.
 
Shadow9mm, I have loaded and shot 45 ACP extensively for decades; and, direct experience with some of the propellants you've listed. (All my 45 ACP guns are full-sized 1911's.)

AA #7
Click to expand...

I have tested AA#7 using 230 JHP's. I found it to kind of "lay down" before achieving high velocities. I was starting to see some primer flattening (not a good thing with the low-pressure 45 ACP) and it just didn't sit well with me; and so, I ceased the work up.

CFE Pistol
Click to expand...

I have no experience with CFE Pistol.

HP-38
Click to expand...

Of course, this one is a natural. HP-38/W231 works well with all bullet weights and styles in 45 ACP. I have loaded quite a few X-treme's 230 HP's (very similar to your Berry's) using HP-38/W231. Velocities can go up to the mid-800's without trouble. More than enough for range ammo.

Power Pistol
Click to expand...

This one is my velocity champ. No surprise - it's Power Pistol - one of the best propellants on the market. Just love the stuff. I've taken velocities up to 971 f/s, with an astounding SD of 3.03 using Power Pistol. No doubt, it was a considerable over-charge and was a one-time-only load work-up thing. But the point is, it did it. It was a 10-round sample, so gleen what you will regarding the SD. My "set" loading yields 923 f/s and is still likely a slight over-charge. It's a great running round and at these pressures, the flash is minimal, relative to Power Pistol's reputation.

Clays
Click to expand...

I have no experience with Clays.

For me and 230's, I use HP-38/W231 for everything except max velocity; then, I reach for the Power Pistol.
 
Shadow9mm said:
Compiled a powder matrix with what I have for comparison
Click to expand...
What's the source for these data? It doesn't sound like you've done all this testing, so is this taken from a Lyman's manual, or from multiple different sources? Are these numbers for a "typical" 5-inch 1911 barrel?
 
Shadow9mm said:
G30 3.77in barrel
Speer 45 auto brass (small primer hole)
Federal Champion Small rifle primers
Berrys 230g plated round nose
COL 1.230

...

HP-38
1x 5.0g
1x 5.5g
5x 6.0g
Click to expand...

According to the Hodgdon web site, 6.0 grains of HP-38 is well above the maximum load. Even 5.5 grains is above the maximum. (Although your COL is longer than what Hodgdon lists, so that may compensate sufficiently.)

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

I use Winchester 231 / HP-38 for all my .45 ACP loads. It's what I started out with and it has done well for me, so I never had any reason to change. With Berry's 230-gr PLRN at a COL of 1.270" I load 5.3 grains and the average velocity is 651 FPS out of a 5-inch 1911.

Berry's 185-grain plated, round-nose, hollow base over 5.0 grains of W231, at a COL of 1.250", produces an average velocity of 665 fps.

This article might be of interest for you: https://www.shootingtimes.com/edito...-bullet-weight-gives-edge/99399#ixzz5D6mJdC7P
 
Aguila Blanca said:
What's the source for these data? It doesn't sound like you've done all this testing, so is this taken from a Lyman's manual, or from multiple different sources? Are these numbers for a "typical" 5-inch 1911 barrel?
Click to expand...
Data is from the source listed on the left going across for each load. I worked up loads for each powder but my chronograph did not make it through the session. The loads I worked up utilized a rough average of starts and maxes, basically a middle ground in relation to start and max.

I did not look up or include barrel lengths but here they are. 5in seems to be the standard
barrel lengths
Hornady, 5in
Lee Not listed
speer 5in
lyman 5in
hodgdon 5in
alliant not listed

I did state in my post that my G30 has a 3.77in barrel. So I anticipated velocities would be lower in my gun.
 
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Aguila Blanca said:
According to the Hodgdon web site, 6.0 grains of HP-38 is well above the maximum load. Even 5.5 grains is above the maximum. (Although your COL is longer than what Hodgdon lists, so that may compensate sufficiently.)

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53
Click to expand...
see the data sheet at the top. While it is above listed max for hodgdon, speer lists a max of 6.2g, Hornady lists a max of 5.7g, and lyman lists a max of 5.8g . So I picked 6.0g as my median maximum between those 3 loads. both lee and Hodgdon listed 5.3g as max, however I discounted lee as they probably got the data from Hodgdon. and leaned towards the other 3 loads as they seemed more in line and Hodgdon seemed to be the outlier. the 5.5g loads were probably the softest or smoothest of all the loads I shot. and I had no indications of pressure on the primers or case with the 6.0g loads, and they still felt much softer than the CFE, Power Pistol, or AA #7.

Not trying to argue, that was just the reasoning I used to get to where I got. I'm open to other ideas or opinions.
 
Marco Califo

BE-86, from what I understand is somewhat of a flash suppressed Power Pistol. I have been looking for some for over a year now. I plan on buying some when I can find it locally, I hate paying hazmat shipping.
 
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