Powder charge?
- Thread starter ZVP
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ZVP- I'll address your question. You have a lot of wiggle room. I bought my first Navy 36 at age 15 over 40 years ago and have shot it a lot. The store that sold me the gun threw in a flask with a 10 grain charge and the fellow told me to use that. One day I missed the target and hit the wood frame, the ball only buried itself about 1/2 way into the wood!!!
I started talking to some old timers and they said with a round ball, the weight is so light and the bearing surface against the bore so minimal that you really could not overload the gun with powder. You could cram in as much powder as possible and be okay. Now a conical that weights more and engages the bore over a larger area- that's different.
So how much powder???
Well I shot a lot with the tiny 10 grain charge so that would be a minimal charge. The theory on accuracy is that the longer the ball travels down the chamber- the less accurate, you want the ball right at the end of the chamber BUT NO AIR SPACE so a lot of shooters using a small charge will put in the powder charge and then use a filler like cream of wheat cereal. The only purpose of this filler is to take up dead air space if you seat the ball at the end of the chamber.
Historically the military didn't use a flask and round balls. It is perhaps the greatest misunderstood aspect of percussion revolvers. I've yet to find a Military issued flask (Civil War) issued to troops carrying a percussion revolver. The military used combustible cartridges and bought this type of ammunition from a variety of manufacturers. Colt and DC Sage were the top two. Powder charges varied a little but were pretty mild. In the 36 Navy the conical weighed about 136 grains and the powder charge was 15 to 17 grains depending on the order/manufacturer. The Navy has a small loading port. It may have been that a larger cartridge would not be able to fit in the loading port and be rammed.
The western lawmen used combustibles for fast reloading and carried them as back up ammunition but they would start the day loading from a flask and using a ball because much more powder could be used. The balls back then were different, the sprue was visiable and flat and if centered in front it was sort of like a semi-wadcutter and might have hit harder.
I personally can't load much more than around 22 grains of fffg real black powder. If some folks can cram in 25 grains- more power to them.
For most shooting I use a pre-lubed wad (no Crisco). The procedure is an 18 grain powder charge, the pre-lubed wad, the round ball. This is a fairly powerful load but still pleasant to shoot and easy on the gun.
I have but don't often shoot conicals. They are not as accurate. In the Old West plenty of folks went to their reward getting laid low with just a regular round ball from a Colt Navy.
Finally on this small charge with cream of wheat filler. If you are not careful you might erroneously think "well this is a target load so it must be more accurate". I've always gotten better accuracy with a larger powder charge. The cream of wheat folks are trying to save money on the powder.
I started talking to some old timers and they said with a round ball, the weight is so light and the bearing surface against the bore so minimal that you really could not overload the gun with powder. You could cram in as much powder as possible and be okay. Now a conical that weights more and engages the bore over a larger area- that's different.
So how much powder???
Well I shot a lot with the tiny 10 grain charge so that would be a minimal charge. The theory on accuracy is that the longer the ball travels down the chamber- the less accurate, you want the ball right at the end of the chamber BUT NO AIR SPACE so a lot of shooters using a small charge will put in the powder charge and then use a filler like cream of wheat cereal. The only purpose of this filler is to take up dead air space if you seat the ball at the end of the chamber.
Historically the military didn't use a flask and round balls. It is perhaps the greatest misunderstood aspect of percussion revolvers. I've yet to find a Military issued flask (Civil War) issued to troops carrying a percussion revolver. The military used combustible cartridges and bought this type of ammunition from a variety of manufacturers. Colt and DC Sage were the top two. Powder charges varied a little but were pretty mild. In the 36 Navy the conical weighed about 136 grains and the powder charge was 15 to 17 grains depending on the order/manufacturer. The Navy has a small loading port. It may have been that a larger cartridge would not be able to fit in the loading port and be rammed.
The western lawmen used combustibles for fast reloading and carried them as back up ammunition but they would start the day loading from a flask and using a ball because much more powder could be used. The balls back then were different, the sprue was visiable and flat and if centered in front it was sort of like a semi-wadcutter and might have hit harder.
I personally can't load much more than around 22 grains of fffg real black powder. If some folks can cram in 25 grains- more power to them.
For most shooting I use a pre-lubed wad (no Crisco). The procedure is an 18 grain powder charge, the pre-lubed wad, the round ball. This is a fairly powerful load but still pleasant to shoot and easy on the gun.
I have but don't often shoot conicals. They are not as accurate. In the Old West plenty of folks went to their reward getting laid low with just a regular round ball from a Colt Navy.
Finally on this small charge with cream of wheat filler. If you are not careful you might erroneously think "well this is a target load so it must be more accurate". I've always gotten better accuracy with a larger powder charge. The cream of wheat folks are trying to save money on the powder.
I figgure I tried hard enough to a stranger.
On the loads;
I tried all sorts of combos with my 5 different revolvers including deep setting the ball, COW filler and no filler with wads.
Seems different guns like different set-ups.
In my 2 '58 Remmies the short one needs a COW filler, Wad, and the ball HAS to be within 1/8" of the edge of the cylinder with almost no jump to thwe forcing cone. Otherwise it shoots poor groups. loaded right it shoots great.
The long '58 wants just powder a wad and dosen't seem to matter how long the ball travels, just as long as the powder is compressed.
Both are ,44's
My .36's all like wads and COW fillers to within 1/8" of the Cyl face,
Pyrodex charges have been best for me as such, /44 35 gr, and .36 .22 gr pyrodex.
I have read and been told all sorts of stuff, from fill her up to 16 gr for the .44's... Seems this changes person to person. Really frustrating trying to find out if I'm doing it correctly!
Yea the Ball has a small contact surface and if you use a little larger ball you seem to get the most positive contact area as it swages into the cylinder. Therefore I use .452" if I can find em. You're pretty well stuck with the standard .36 ball .351 IIRC.
I shot some conicals and liked em , They kicked because of heavy weights. and I prefer the ease of loading Balls.
Now maybe I have been clear enough to have explained this to everyones satisfaction and understanding. As you can see it's a bewildering topic for a newcomer to grasp completely and correctly!
ZVP
On the loads;
I tried all sorts of combos with my 5 different revolvers including deep setting the ball, COW filler and no filler with wads.
Seems different guns like different set-ups.
In my 2 '58 Remmies the short one needs a COW filler, Wad, and the ball HAS to be within 1/8" of the edge of the cylinder with almost no jump to thwe forcing cone. Otherwise it shoots poor groups. loaded right it shoots great.
The long '58 wants just powder a wad and dosen't seem to matter how long the ball travels, just as long as the powder is compressed.
Both are ,44's
My .36's all like wads and COW fillers to within 1/8" of the Cyl face,
Pyrodex charges have been best for me as such, /44 35 gr, and .36 .22 gr pyrodex.
I have read and been told all sorts of stuff, from fill her up to 16 gr for the .44's... Seems this changes person to person. Really frustrating trying to find out if I'm doing it correctly!
Yea the Ball has a small contact surface and if you use a little larger ball you seem to get the most positive contact area as it swages into the cylinder. Therefore I use .452" if I can find em. You're pretty well stuck with the standard .36 ball .351 IIRC.
I shot some conicals and liked em , They kicked because of heavy weights. and I prefer the ease of loading Balls.
Now maybe I have been clear enough to have explained this to everyones satisfaction and understanding. As you can see it's a bewildering topic for a newcomer to grasp completely and correctly!
ZVP
Hawg.
You're right.
There are so many variables between revolvers it seems like when you find that magic combination, you'd better stick with it!
Lemme tell you about airguns sometime if you want to know about finiky guns! Each one (eben the same Model) has favorite pellets, lubes and hold techniques (for the springers). They're way worse tham powder fired guns!
Thanks,
ZVP
You're right.
There are so many variables between revolvers it seems like when you find that magic combination, you'd better stick with it!
Lemme tell you about airguns sometime if you want to know about finiky guns! Each one (eben the same Model) has favorite pellets, lubes and hold techniques (for the springers). They're way worse tham powder fired guns!
Thanks,
ZVP
As I said, there is a lot of wiggle room, sounds like you are doing fine. On modern firearms a semi-auto uses the recoil to operate the slide and the nose of the bullet needs to be contoured to go into the chamber okay but even on a modern revolver you can reload with all sorts of powder charges and bullets. The only real no-no on a percussion is dead air space between powder and ball.