Powder charge?

Z

ZVP

New member
I have been shooting Cap anc Ball Revolvers about 2 1/2 years now but the question if the right load still haunts me!
I have read about so many different powder charges for the '51 Navy that I am bewildered! Loade from 26 gr to 25gr are advised.
I have even been told that a cylinderfull is NOT an overcharge, but I won't do that!
Of the ones I read I settled on a 22gr charge of Pyrodex (real BP is impossible to find) for my Uberti ''51 Navy and my Piettia '61 Police Navy models.
I read the spec's on different Flasks and even the Flasks sold at Cabelas come with a 16gr charge spout!
So just what is a proper charge of Pyrodex (mwasures the sane as real BP)?
At 22 gr it dosen't seem or shoot like an overcharge for the .36.
BTW, I use the same 22gr charge in my Brass Freme Piettia .44, reasoning that this is a meduim charge. I tried several loads and from reading Mike V.'s fine article in Guns of the old West, I settled on the 22gr charge.
This charge fires solidly, with little recoil, and good accuracy.
By a similar process I deduced that a 35gr charge works well in my '58 Remingtons.
What is the right charge for all these guns? am I exceeding the right charges?
Thanks,
ZVP
 
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The "right charge" is the one that's the most accurate in your gun, and does what you want it to do.

It's nearly impossible to blow one up from overcharging with BP

Other than that, the "right charge" is like "the prettiest girl"

It depends on who you ask, and nothing more
 
The "right charge" is the one that's the most accurate in your gun, and does what you want it to do.
Click to expand...

This.

Most of the .44 cal guns like the 51, 60, 58, will probably reach optimum accuracy around 20 grains of 3F powder or equivalent.

But you have to "develop a load" for each gun.

For a revolver, I make up 6 cartridges in varying loads from 15 grains up to 30, in 5 grain increments.

Except the Walker, which I did from 30 grains up to 60 in 5 grain increments.

Here is an example of what a load workup might look like. This was for my Uberti Walker:

http://i.imgur.com/aYAQNM5.jpg

You can't tell it from the picture, but on the 45 grain target the top-most hole was actually 3 bullets in the same hole (very nearly) and the left-most hole was 2 bullets in the same hole (very nearly).

I'd say between 35 and 45 grains is going to work for this gun. Now that I have it dialed in that close I will make up more cartridges in this range and try again.

The owners' manuals for the guns will tell you the maximum load for them. It's generally not a good idea to shoot maximum loads with brass framed guns as the cylinder will batter the back of the frame and eventually dent it. This will open up the cylinder face-to-barrel gap and cause it to vent gasses when firing. This may affect accuracy.

Steve
 
I have a friend who was lucky to escape injury after the cylinder let go out the side on a .44 1860 Army. He didn't get a scratch but the cylinder is junk. He used 25gr. The manufacturer told him it was a "hot load".

I disagree with that a lot...my .36 likes 22-24gr
 
I can see why the manufacturers suggest such light loads (legal complications!)
However they don't suggest a BP cartrige load or even mention a Smokeless cartige cylinder!
I guess you mist take all the info that you can gather and work your way up from the bottom to get power and accuracy.
U have quite a nuce little library of BP books, and all never state the same charge the same! Very confusing!
'
I'm not trying to build up a man-stopper but I would like as powerfull load about approximate to the old full power charge for hunting small game and another lighter "Target load".
I guess the old trial and error method is best ( combined with a lot of common sense!
Thanks for all the help guys!
ZVP
 
I have a friend who was lucky to escape injury after the cylinder let go out the side on a .44 1860 Army. He didn't get a scratch but the cylinder is junk. He used 25gr. The manufacturer told him it was a "hot load".
Click to expand...

I don't think that is particularly hot for an 1860 Army.

Steve
 
I have a friend who was lucky to escape injury after the cylinder let go out the side on a .44 1860 Army. He didn't get a scratch but the cylinder is junk. He used 25gr.
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25 grains of what, W 231?

I use 30 - 35 in 1860's
 
robhof

He might have had bullet creep and the lighter load plus an air gap produced excessive pressure, yes even with a reduced load an unseated ball or bullet can produce dangerous pressures.:eek::mad:
 
I think I'm using something like 13 grains in my Griswold & Gunnison .36's for CAS - it gives me a full stroke of the ram and there's no need to use more for the game.
 
powder charge

I bought a 36 cal pistol from a person that won a national black powder championship with it a few years ago.I'm sure the powder charge he used was 16grs.
 
I use a 20gr load of Pyrodex in my brass frame .44 Navy.
use 22 gr in my steel .26 Navy.
I use 30 and 35 gr pf Pyrodex in my Remmies both give pretty good accuracy, but the heavier load shoots more consistant groups. Both loade go BOOM, not the Pffft or whoosh that lower charges sound like.
I see some BP shooters load so light that their guns go Pffft! Almost sounds like the balls aren't going to clear the muzzle! I dont know ig they are trying to save powder or what???
I have shot my BP revolvers without ear plugs (in wide open fields)
The loads I use give a solid boom and aren't abusive to the ears
I would bet that a ROA charged full is an earsplitter!
Just trying to enjoy the sport to the fullest and with the most "realistic" loads like in the old days.
I shoot lead ball ammo and have found it quite accurate! My full size '58 Remington ia the most accurate of the 6 revolvers that I own.
Thanks for the help!

BPDave
 
I run 50 to 60 grains of goex 3f in the walker. 55 seems to be the sweet spot. And you have to love the looks on peoples faces when their smokeless pistols are going "pop, pop" and someone cuts loose with "PHWOOM" My range has a steel roof over the benches. The walker makes it rattle.:D
 
25 grains of what, W 231?

I use 30 - 35 in 1860's
Click to expand...

He might have had bullet creep and the lighter load plus an air gap produced excessive pressure, yes even with a reduced load an unseated ball or bullet can produce dangerous pressures.
Click to expand...

I dunno what he used. I use pryodex myself. He had been happy with pellets in the past so maybe he used those, but I don't know which brand of course.

We talked about a possible air gap. It's either that or a cylinder with dross/voids as far as I can tell. He didn't feel that the balls went in at different depths but I can bet he's gonna be damn sure in the future!
 
hot load?

first you got to decide if you are are shooting a .31, .32, .36, .44 or what.
If you bought the thing new, go with what the manufacturer recommends
Speaking for the standard 44's here.
Whether it be the Colt style 1860 Army or the Remington style.
They will normally hold a max of about 40 gr of fffg.
But that does not mean you will actually completely seat the common .454 round ball with that much powder.
But many will do so with a 35 grain charge of fffg.
But 35 is many times looked at as a hot load for some.
Personally in my Remingtons I regularly load 25 to 35 gr depending on what i am going to shoot with that load. Paper 25 is more than enough. Penetration in wood and such 30+.
Now if I want it loaded for an aggressive asailant, animal or a person.
the 30 to 35gr is just fine.
My 1851 44 has slightly smaller chambers length wise so my max in them is 30 gr. Yours may be different.
Now my walker which is also classed as a 44 has much longer chambers.
While it will hold 60 gr I don't load it that hot. I normally use 40 to 5ogr fffg in it.
 
Pyrodex if ya read the post funny guy!
ZVP
Click to expand...

:) Hi.

Hawg Haggen asked me, specifically by quoting me, what charge my friend had used during an accident he suffered, and what type of powder he used to make up the charge. i describe that accident in this thread.

My reply ("I dunno what he used") was not in reference to your original post, in which I fully understand you cited Pyrodex, but rather in response to Hawg Haggen- and I did that by quoting him.

I am sorry you feel I'm a "funny guy", and that you are upset, but your unhappiness has come from a mistake you have unfortunately made, not from my statements. I'm not offended, so please try not to be offended yourself. Have a nice night.
 
Hi Hawg!
I didn't mean to make ya mad, I was just being funny myself!

My main concern is .36 caliber loads.
Hope we can still be friends?
ZVP
 
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