Posse Comitatus laws

[JimDandy]

The Army is not designed to stop smugglers, nor is it designed to deploy for long periods of time without a clear purpose.

I agree with the long periods of time part. I believe, however that the Army would do quite well stopping smugglers if they ran exercises on the border. Between a proving ground over here for Apache attack runs, Kiowas running reconnaissance missions, and Tanks, Bradleys, and Strikers engaging in maneuver drills, it would be very easy for them to catch someone on Infrared in a prohibited area, and direct a few MP's in a HMMWV to find out what they were doing there.

I'm not suggesting the Army be there strictly for interdiction, but that they do the same activities as they do already at the National Training Center at Fort Irwin. They won't cover the entire border obviously, but they could drastically shrink the area ICE and Border Patrol would have to worry about.

 

[MLeake]

For a while, maybe, until the smugglers paid a few bribes and posted a few observers. There are few places where aircraft and helicopter sorties can't be monitored.

 

[lcpiper]

No way.

They would have those kids running around out there without ammo. Really guys, everyone assumes that Soldier + Weapon = Lethality. But they never give them any ammo unless they actually are in combat or doing live fire.

They do not want to explain how someones' dead boy was killed because some bone head put the red magazine in his weapon instead of the blue magazine.

Immediately after 911 we had students(soldiers) here at Fort Huachuca posted as security at the buildings and other possible targets on the base. They all had weapons, not any of them had ammo.

I complained that terrorists didn't need to bring anything more then a pistol or a good knife along with a bandolier of ammo in magazines to have a real party. It made no difference.

This would only get some soldiers killed.

The Border Patrol has every resource they need to do the job except the one that is most important, the orders to do so.

 

[JimDandy]

They would have those kids running around out there without ammo. Really guys, everyone assumes that Soldier + Weapon = Lethality

Actually I assumed the MP's and any Border Patrol "observers" would have the live rounds, while the tanks, Brads and Kiowas had the radar, and IR.

 

[SPEMack618]

The Georgia Guard sent a few units, like one or two platoons at most, to the border back in '08.

In talking to some of those guys, the rules set in place for them in regards to weapons were so onerous as to be unitelligible.

Even worse was the confusion that reigned between the USBP guys and the Guard over whom was supposed to be protecting whom.

Edited to add:

My issue is with U.S. Army ground units, be they state or federal, being used in active interdiction along the border.

Military ISR assests would be of great help to the CBP guys, in my opinion. And that is good real world training for them, too.

 

[ScottRiqui]

At one time, maybe even today they were using EC3 Hawkeye ( navy) aircraft to track aircraft smuggling into the states ( and Cuba) They may have been "loaned" to the CG but I wasn't part of that.

I've done that mission a few times (1999 and again in 2001). It's the E-2C Hawkeye, but close enough

We would work with the Coast Guard, coordinating through the Joint Interagency Task Force (JIATF), but we weren't officially assigned to the Coast Guard. We'd detect and track the suspicious boats (and sometimes aircraft) heading North, and vector an Air Force fighter aircraft or a Navy P-3 Orion down to get a visual look and/or take pictures. If needed, the Coast Guard did the actual boarding and searching.

It was also fairly common to have a Coast Guard sniper flying in a Navy helicopter. The sniper could disable the boat's engine(s) under Title 14 of the US Code, something that the active-duty military couldn't do in that region under our Title 10 authorities.

 

[rwilson452]

I've done that mission a few times (1999 and again in 2001). It's the E-2C Hawkeye, but close enough

Your right It's been a long time. Back in the 70s when I worked with them but mostly worked with the S2F pilots

I would note that out in CA they have a check point on I-5 right in the middle of Camp Pendelton Marines are always catching illegals trying to sneak up the beach. One time they got the hell scared out of them The. Marines were holding a game with Miles gear when the marines saw people sneaking along the beach they opened up on them.

 

[lcpiper]

This is what caught my eye in reading that article.

Most of the criticism of the deployment focuses on its costs and benefits. The 1,200 National Guard troops have helped Border Patrol agents apprehend 25,514 illegal immigrants at a cost of $160 million — or $6,271 for each person caught.

Of course it's expensive to deploy the guard, by the way, this was the guard coming from half way across the country. New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas all have their own guard so why use these Northerners unless cost isn't an issue?

But the real deal, 25,514 illegal immigrants.

The real problem isn't catching them, it's what we do with them after we catch them.

 

[SPEMack618]

Mainly because the American and Mexican border is friggin' huge.

And even if the Texas Guard has X amount many Soldiers in it, not every one of those guys and girls can go patrol the border.

Same goes for Arizona and New Mexico. That whole tooth to tail ratio for one thing, and another thing is not all Guard units are combat units. Or even combat support.

A really good friend of mine is a SSgt in the Georgia Guard. Super smart girl. Pretty, too boot. And she writes and reviews press releases at the Brigade PAO office. And she's got a campaign medal or too. But that doesn't mean she can be dropped in my squad, given an M-4A1 in lieu of her M-16A2 and told to ride around with me and my guys.

 

[csmsss]

The real problem isn't catching them, it's what we do with them after we catch them.

Well, we spend a bunch of money processing and warehousing them for a while, then another bunch of money deporting them just so they can try to get across yet again.

I happen to know of one illegal (currently north of the border) near where I live who has been over and back more than a dozen times. It's just a game, since there's no real penalty imposed on them when they're caught.

If I were running things, I'd be sending the Republic of Mexico (as well as every other country sending us their undesired populations) a largish bill every month, capturing the cost of processing illegals, all of the public services they consume, as well as the costs associated with imprisoning those who have committed crimes here. I have a funny feeling the flow would ebb quite quickly if the Mexican government was receiving a $10 billion invoice every month.

 

[ClydeFrog]

JAG; U of Virginia...

For more details, I would see: www.dod.gov or www.army.mil & learn about the US Army Judge Advocate General(JAG). These JAG lawyers & staff deal with legal issues like PCA.
The US armed forces use the UCMJ or Uniform Code of Military Justice. Troops also have SOFA or Status of Forces Agreements with host nations(Iraq, Japan, UK, Germany, Saudi Arabia, South Korea).
US or federal laws apply too.

CF