Poor mans slug or "cut shells"

There have been buckshot loads used since the 1700s iirc. Buckshot is a whole lot smarter.
An escaped lion, the African kind, was taken with one shot of 12 gauge buckshot at that Ohio private zoo debacle a few years ago.
It was from close range as the lion ran right by the shooter; the animal went down after running away just a short distance.
The shooter only barely had time for even one shot, but the venerable buckshot came through once again.
During the same long night hunt for the escaped critters, a large female tiger was much harder to bring down with ARs.
 
one instantaneous hit with ten or twelve buckshot pellets, or two or three .223 bullets? no debate in my mind.

How many people can controlled fire put more than two or three rounds into a charging, screeching cat that has just burst out of concealment? Hit every one, in a lethal place? I don't know, but I think that everyone should be praying that the thing is a really stupid one.

I think that most hunters or well trained shooters can get a load of buckshot into the face and chest and still follow up if it doesn't stop it completely.

I read years ago that in the forests of india hunting big cats was done with shot, not with single ball muskets. Hunting on elephants especially, if the thing attacks out of the jungle there isn't a whole lot of range, gotta get as much damage in as possible, and even if you don't get a lot of spread, a bunch of shot has a better chance of severing arteries or nerves than a single large round does.
 
My understanding of the reason for cutting shells (the old paper ones) was to keep a BIRDSHOT load together in "one piece" so it would act like a slug at very close range.

This allowed a round capable of taking a deer at close range, without having to buy shells just for that use. It was a time when people there were hunting for food, not sport, people for whom getting the cash to buy a single box of shells took serious effort, and they simply didn't have the extra money for "specialty" shells.

You can (hopefully) take a deer with a cut shell load of birdshot or rabbit shot, but buckshot or slugs don't work worth a darn on birds and rabbits. It was an emergency field expedient back then, and a risky thing, but when its risk vs hunger, risk gets redefined. It wasn't a good idea then, but it was better than going hungry.

U Tube idiots playing with it today doesn't make it a good idea, either.
 
In the years I shot trap I have had and seen a lot of shells go out the end of the barrel (most all minus the brass) . In that time I never seen a gun damaged unless the hull stuck in the barrel . Than if you shot again you may loose a gun or more . The old all plastic Active shell came out some time in or around late 70.s . The Active hull was reloaded a bunch and reloaded well .
But when it got colder it had a big problem with blowing a good half the hall down the barrel . It was very hard to remove if it did not make it out of the barrel and if you did not know it you had a bigger problem next shot .
Shooters stopped using Active reloads in winter .
 
I doubt I can hit that dowel with 11,000 psi. And if I could it would come loose way before that.

Don't get me wrong it is still a bad idea, but your example is not great

My point was to show how tight the fit would be to just driving the whole front of the shell down the barrel. Now add 11,000psi behind that amount of resistance and someone wanting to do this should get the idea that shooting a cut shell is a bad idea. I hate that you didn't get that. And yes it should come loose way before that because if the super tight fit. That was the whole point. It just might come apart in the barrel and leave a barrel obstruction like mentioned by an earlier poster. Or even worse split the barrel.

Like I wrote, i have done it before I had any idea what I was doing. But I will never do it again.
 
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My Grandad (1889-1973) showed me how to make cut shells. I've fired cut shells many times in my Mossberg 12 gauge with no ill effects. Low brass #7.5 shot size. They're amazingly accurate from my cylinder bore barrel. But I would not shoot these cut shells from a full or modified choke.

Jack
 
Don't get me wrong, I still think that this is an incredibly bad idea, messing with the black magic that shotgun shells are made with, for a lot o reasons, but I've got a question or the people here. Popping one of them through a full choked shotgun- Would that be much different from running a standard round through a full choked gun with back-bore? Obviously, yes, there is going to be a huge difference in a lot of ways. Back boring loosens pressure at the barrel, it doesn't have to deal with the extra weight and size of the hull, it doesn't have to deal with the sudden "thud" when that oversized lump of lead and plastic hits the choke, but given the fact that the pressure at the choke is at the lowest levels that it could possibly be, is that even a true concern?

it still isn't a slug. at impact, that thing is very likely going to rupture or strip the crimped part, if it doesn't right at the barrel. Then you have nothing different than a close range hit from a regular shell, except for the unknown factors of fluidity of the shot.

after a whole lot of thinking, I have decided for myself, at least, I guess that it isn't extremely unsafe, but I'm not convinced. although it wont work as expected to, that it won't be in the least bit accurate, that there are still a buttload of problems, I don't necessarily think any more that it represents a serious danger to the shooter of a gun that isn't sensitive to it.

I'd not do it unless my life was in question, maybe not even then, because it's not meant to work that way, and considering how freaking picky shotgun loads are already, it bugs the heck out of me that someone is willing to jam an oversized, overweight, out of the normal powder and shot and shell combination through the cone and barrel of a shotgun.

Something that keeps coming to mind is all of the shotguns that were blown to kingdom come when people loaded the "new" wads with old wad loads. Back when, wads were disks of cork, paper, whatever, and a heck of a lot of gas slipped through as it jumped the shell gap and went through the process of the bore. Then, we came out with the obturating wad, a cup shaped paper wad that popped out to fit the bore and allowed no gas leakage beyond what slipped past the hull. Obviously pressure increased at the chamber and back end. Then, we came up with plastic wads that lost even less pressure, and when people kept using the old data, chamber and back end pressures were pumped up far beyond the old norm, and yes, a heck of a lot of ordinarily adequate barrels split. Pack a muzzle loader with a load meant for a smokeless shell, especially with a heavy, high power shell, and your' playing with fire. No leakage anywhere, smokeless loads through a BP proofed barrel, we did a lot of really dumb things in the past without knowing better, and this sure seems to be a similar situation.

The OP didn't say that he planned on trying it, but still, I sure don't like the idea and would caution anyone contemplating it to think twice.
 
Now they make 1.5" 12-guage slugs. That seems like a cool idea for reduced recoil and more capacity, but how effective can they be?

Aguila 1 3/4" mini slugs are 25 grams (5/8 oz) in weight and go 1250 fps.

I think those will hurt. :eek:
 
aguila short rounds will not work in all weapons, lists are available, but regardless of the lists there is no way in heck I'd fire them in a semiauto and I'd be really reluctant to use them in anything but a breech loading single shot or double. I'm just plain nuts that way, I'm not going to use anything that breaks so fully from the accepted norm that was used to create that firearm.

aguila short rounds have a 17 gram slug at about 381 mps. Creates about 1299 joules of KE.

Plain old winchester 2-3/4 inch slug rounds have a 28 gram foster slug and reach 488 meters per second creating 3,348 joules of KE and the 3 inch creates 4,022 joules, more than twice the energy of the short aquila. Not even a realistic comparison.

Sure, the aguila will hit with a thump, but it's not even close to the power of a heavy .44 magnum at about 1,600 joules. really, really inferior in a lot of ways, and essentially, IMO, just a ridiculous gimmick that doesn't even remotely live up to the standard rounds.Not even useful compared to a heavy handgun round, and I'd be kind of doubtful using one against big game.

BTW, 25 grams, as they report it, is BS. the real conversion of 5/8 is only 18. Doesn't say a whole lot to me when the maker can't even get the math right.
 
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