pondering a lot lately; buying guns thru gun shop OR private party

J

jcrim007

New member
here is my hang up, as far as i see it, you can buy guns 2 ways... a.) buy from a gun shop/retailer and have the item registered to you or b.) buy from a private party (such as here on the forums, paper classifieds, etc..) and not have the gun registered to you.

with option a.) the government knows you bought it and they can track how many you buy per year... but at least you know it is a legal gun and it is tied to you and YOU alone are responsible for it.

with option b.) the government does not know you have it, so they cannot track your purchases and thus you are flying "under the radar", per say... BUT the gun you buy could possibly be a stolen or a "criminal" gun with a past, and if the serial is ever run by police for whatever reason, then you may take the rap for something.

i've been thinking about this a lot for a few reasons: 1.) because i am looking at getting some new guns, and i would like to do it the "best" way. 2.) because the post about harold fish trial where he was labeled a "gun nut" because the government knew how many guns per year he was buying. 3.) because a post about an AR getting someone almost arrested because of a clerical error between serial #'s in which the cop "thought" the AR was a stolen gun... but it was not. and 4.) what if stupid obama decides to ban something and have LEO's come door to door collecting stuff...

here is the link the the harold fish trial post: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325908&highlight=harold+fish

here is the link to the AR mix-up post: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326092

i hope this is has not been covered too much, and that i don't annoy anyone with this question/concern.

i am mid-way right now; i've only bought 3 guns at shops that registered to me, and i only have 1 still in my collection, sold/traded the other 2. all my other guns are unregistered, inherited items or private sale/trade items

thank you to all for your consideration of this post.
 
There a quite a few reasons why our government will not be visiting our homes collecting our guns. Politics aside, consider the manpower involved in trying to confiscate the millions of weapons out there. In my county, the sheriff's office complained that it did not even have enough funding to process CC applications.

I've purchased guns both of the ways you described and not felt the least bit concerned or guilty.
 
They have gun registration in Florida? There's a difference between a gun sale transaction at a gun store and actual registration such as NYC.
 
The other question to ponder would be if one were to acquire a firearm through channels "under the radar", would the new Obama regime create more draconian legislation to penalize the owner?
 
There is no gun registration in FL, nor restriction on FTF sales by private parties.

IMO, guns will be fine - HOWEVER, ammunition will be the weak link - that is where the anti's will go - without ammunition, a gun is worthless...
 
State and Fed. govt. does NOT keep records of firarms sales. And if they did, so what?

"Jeez, yeah . . . I used to own one, and sold it at a gun show." :D
 
By your argument, only FTF sales would be truly "under the radar". Private sales that involve crossing state lines involve the exact same background checks and such as a direct sale from an FFL.

I do not see officials knocking on your door to seize your guns. That would require either an amendment to the constitution (which requires 3/4 of the states to agree), or a unbelievably massive number of LEO's acting in blind obedience to follow the president's private, and unlawful, commands.

I know in VA, the state handles the 4473 background checks, and they supposedly only retain a record of a check for a few months (to ensure obedience with the one-gun per month law) and then they dump the data. True, the FFL is supposed to keep a copy of the paperwork, but I do not believe that there is any state or Federal master database of every gun I've ever bought. And as mentioned, I could always claim I sold them all FTF, and there is no way for anyone to prove otherwise since I am not required to keep a record of my private transactions.

Life is too short to waste it fretting over needless paranoia.
 
thanks for chiming in everyone. i don't think i'm being over-paranoid, but instead just thinking about it...

the only reasons that i have not gotten the guns i want recently is because i don't have the money, and even if i did seems like every AR, 18" shotgun and 1911 is in real low stock or no stock these days. but i am finding some stuff on here... if i had the money :)
 
I buy from gun stores only( mostly used).

That way I have a backup if the gun turns out to be stolen.

If the government goes into confiscation mode,there is a hundred years of long guns,shotguns and handguns they simply have no idea where they are at.

Brings a warm thought to my heart,it does. :D
 
I go out of my way to look like two or three gun owners on "the radar". When budget permits, I'll cheerfully be the cause of my dealer filling out a "multiple handgun purchase" form. I belong to several RKBA groups, my fingerprints were on the C&R form as well as the CHL.

"Under the radar" is counterproductive, IMHO.

Stand up and be counted. The more of us there are, the stronger we are. Gun owners "off the radar" will only keep their stuff an extra day or so in any tin foil scenario and do the rest of us a disservice in the meantime.

Firearms aren't kiddy porn, they aren't "dirty" and something to be ashamed of or fearful that others know we possess them. If enough of us treat the exercise of firearms rights like something filthy to be kept out of the light of day we should probably not express surprise when others adopt a similar attitude toward our interests.

Interestingly enough, whether the firearms in the two cases you cite were "on paper" or not would not seem to have anything whatsoever to do with the outcomes.
 
One thing none of you is admitting is that guns are confiscated by police going door-to-door already.

It happens in California quite often (relatively). They decide to make a particular EBR illegal and then round up the ones that were sold. Sometimes arresting the legal purchaser, more often just confiscating the weapon(s) in question without recompense.

What happened in New Orleans? Are you saying that never happened?
 
Since you discussed your concerns on the Internet - the UN, Obama, the gummit, etc. have you pegged and your discussion of trying to hide XYZ.

Too bad, you already screwed yourself from the 1st Luxembourg Airborne when the come to take your guns wearing blue helmets.

Tin Foil Hats ON!!
 
with option a.) the government knows you bought it and they can track how many you buy per year...
Click to expand...
Not really.

The government doesn't know you bought it unless you purchased more than 1 at a time, and in order for them to find out for certain what you bought they'd have to check with every FFL holder in your state of residence as well as in any states where you've lived before.

Similarly, they can't track how many you buy unless you always buy more than one at a time.

The records stay with the FFL holder and only go to the government when the FFL holder lets his license lapse. There's an exception when you buy more than one at a time, then the FFL holder has to submit a form.

The govt can reverse trace a gun (say one that gets used in a crime) by going to the manufacturer and asking where they sent the gun. The mfctr looks in their records & provides a distributor's name. Govt goes to distributor & asks again. Distributor looks in records & provides a dealer. Govt goes to dealer and asks again. Dealer looks in records & provides a name. There's no good way to run the check from the other end because the records are not centralized.

Regarding the forms from former FFLs that are turned into the govt. It is forbidden for the govt to enter that information into a database to create a list of gun owners.
 
If I had my choice Id buy from a individual if possible. that being said 95% of my guns have come thru FFL's though just because I couldnt find the specific gun I wanted for sale locally at the time I was wanting it.

I agree with another poster that ammo will be the weak link in the future.
it would be just like cars if gas production stopped. The stored supply would eventually run out and they would be worthless.
 
There are at least two schools of thought here.

One is that filling out a 4473 is de facto registration...in which case, an FTF is your only recourse.

Another point of view is that, posting any info on an internet bulletin board is trackable, recordable and, eventually, front-door-knockable.

After due consideration, I have come to the conclusion that if either or both of these are true, then we are well and truly screwed, and I am not going to live my life based on "what might be".

So while I did so for a short period, I am not concerning myself with buying "off-paper" guns or disguising my buying or selling on-line. What will be, will be. And I will deal with it accordingly.
 
I've thought about this, too. I prefer to buy from a gunshop so that I have somebody to go to if I have a problem, and somebody to talk trade with if I am not happy with it. I do, also register new-gun purchases with the manufacturer, for warranty purposes.
Yes, somebody could dig really deep, and find me. I have some guns for more than 20 years, they would really be hard to trace back.
On the other hand, I did see Katrina, and I can envision a methodical gun-grab in the future. Type by type, model by model. Then the "inspections," doomed to fail, with confiscation the outcome of a failed "inspection."
I know it sounds paranoid. But I often think that the way this country is heading, it could happen. I try to console myself with the logistics, the sheer numbers, and the public outcry that I hope would happen. I've seen suggestions of "receipts of sale" if somebody came to the door looking for a particular gun.
I don't have a good answer, other than "diversify." Have some of each! Some on site, and some at your aunt's home, or elsewhere off-site. I have to believe that if it starts, it will start in the "blue" coastal states before it gets here to the "red" central states. I know, the next thing I'll be shouting is "Wolverines!" Trying to stay sane in these crazy times!
 
where to buy

I had the same problem and lots of people don't know which way to go. Consider this : do you intent to get CCW ? If so, either way you would have to get the gun registered, so buy thegun any ways it present itself to you: gun shows, gun shop, pawn shop ect....Now as far as ammo are concern, you need to buy some good book on reloading and look towards rolling your own. That cost a few bucks too. About Obama, yeah but he has more trouble in his lap that he can handle so don't worry about him.Los Angeles residents have new gun laws to deal with, I don't know what they are but it stinks. They have a good local NRA that's going to take care of that like S.F. and Washington D.C.
 
ccw select a handgun?

From the previous post: Consider this : do you intent to get CCW ? If so, either way you would have to get the gun registered,

Do some states require you to choose your carry gun?

I thought in CO you get a permit to carry.
 
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