Poll: Who has been the WORST President in United States History?
- Thread starter LanceOregon
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BRUXLEY:
Just for the record, I consider ALL human beings to be created with the same God given rights. Have you ever thought about what may have happened if the question of slavery had not been settled by war here? Perhaps it would have died its natural death as it did in the rest of the western hemisphere without the jim crow, lynchings, and a hundred years of segragation. Just like I believe the US should have stayed out of first world war; the after effects were worse than good done.
I think you get so wrapped up in a desire to do good, that you become blind to all damage done in the furious charge to a moral cause. I personally believe that abortion is murder of innocent life, sure I could blow up clinics like Eric Rudolph, or kill the doctors, but that would most likely hurt my cause not help it.
You might want to get to know some of us Confederates. Did you know that in 2000, I supported Allen Keys (a black man) for president and I still have the t-shirt, my favorite Supreme Court justice is Clarence Thomas, I listen to the blues, and the church I worship in, whites are a minority? Any real southerner knows that the decendants of African slaves contributed a lot to our culture.
Just for the record, I consider ALL human beings to be created with the same God given rights. Have you ever thought about what may have happened if the question of slavery had not been settled by war here? Perhaps it would have died its natural death as it did in the rest of the western hemisphere without the jim crow, lynchings, and a hundred years of segragation. Just like I believe the US should have stayed out of first world war; the after effects were worse than good done.
I think you get so wrapped up in a desire to do good, that you become blind to all damage done in the furious charge to a moral cause. I personally believe that abortion is murder of innocent life, sure I could blow up clinics like Eric Rudolph, or kill the doctors, but that would most likely hurt my cause not help it.
You might want to get to know some of us Confederates. Did you know that in 2000, I supported Allen Keys (a black man) for president and I still have the t-shirt, my favorite Supreme Court justice is Clarence Thomas, I listen to the blues, and the church I worship in, whites are a minority? Any real southerner knows that the decendants of African slaves contributed a lot to our culture.
copenhagen
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Dang skippy brother.
Unfortunately those that seceded and the Constitution of the Confederacy did NOT and they were willing to go to war to keep it that way. They chose war over the consideration you expressed. 3/5 a human, no vote or liberty (ownership of one's own life). Had they let slavery die the natural death that was at hand at the time they could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Instead they chose rebellion and war.
The Confederacy wasn't the idealistic stand for States' rights it has been romanticized to be by southern nostalgia. It was a willingness to tear a nation in half and draw first blood in a bloody war to retain human bondage as foundation of economic standing. So stated in the letters of secession.
Slavery had met it's natural end but the leaders of the south determined to fight it. An awful thing to make such a bloody stand for.
copenhagen
New member
psshhh... I shake my head and laugh to myself at that....
Finding the brutality of the Civil War funny is a bit sadistic.
Or could it be that lacking a better reply you take the tactic of faining laughter to mask embarrassment?
I hope it was the latter. Slavery, lynching, segregation and poll taxes are hardly comical. And not a heritage most would find nostalgic, righteous, or funny.
Or could it be that lacking a better reply you take the tactic of faining laughter to mask embarrassment?
I hope it was the latter. Slavery, lynching, segregation and poll taxes are hardly comical. And not a heritage most would find nostalgic, righteous, or funny.
Lincoln said:
The time of resolution was at hand. No eventually needed. The time had come and the South chose war over abolishment. It was a long time coming and the seceding States made the decision to value the financial advantage of slavery over their nation. They chose war over the tide of abolishment of slavery, rebellion over the liberty of those that had made the vast and fertile fields from the wilderness of the south.
The duplicity that they were human enough to be counted toward representation in the United States House of Representatives but NOT human enough to enjoy the liberty the United States offered was realized to be unacceptably illogical and unjust.
The duplicity endured in the south. That duplicity and the duplicity that the United States was a loose agreement between States and not perpetual but the Confederate constitution immediately states the permanence to THAT Federal government. That it was acceptable for slaves to fight and die for the Confederacy but were only 3/5 a person under it's Constitution and without protection under it.
The Civil War was about preserving the Union as it was an insurrection of the southern States' leaders and not a mandate of the people of those States, that formed the Confederacy. There was no vote on the matter after all in any of those States.
And there is no doubt whatsoever that it was done to preserve slavery in a time when slavery had reached it's natural end as abolishment of slavery had come to maturity. It was realized and accepted to be abhorrent. The south had to face a choice, abolish slavery or go to war to preserve it, they chose war, they got war, they lost. They resorted to lynchings, segregation, and poll taxes to keep their foot on the race they considered less human.
Now we are to believe that it is all a misrepresentation and skewing of history. That it was actually Lincoln that was a despotic tyrant, not those Confederates. That Davis was an honorable man of integrity and virtue looking only to uphold the sacred rights of States. Not a US Senator turned traitor for the cause of maintaining slavery.
The facts and documents of the day, and since then in the behavior (lynchings, segregation, poll taxes) of the leaders clinging to the Confederate identity bear witness of the reality.
The Confederacy's actions did destroy the relationship between the States And Between those States and The Fed. They found their relationship with slavery as their economic foundation more valuable and instead chose war.
By choosing war it was those leaders of the Southern States, not Lincoln, that were the bad players. The Confederacy did permanently damaged the relationship US States had with each other and with the fed. Much the same effect hijackers had on getting on an airplane or mass shootings had on open carry. The bad players will inevitably wreck a good thing.
The duplicity that they were human enough to be counted toward representation in the United States House of Representatives but NOT human enough to enjoy the liberty the United States offered was realized to be unacceptably illogical and unjust.
The duplicity endured in the south. That duplicity and the duplicity that the United States was a loose agreement between States and not perpetual but the Confederate constitution immediately states the permanence to THAT Federal government. That it was acceptable for slaves to fight and die for the Confederacy but were only 3/5 a person under it's Constitution and without protection under it.
The Civil War was about preserving the Union as it was an insurrection of the southern States' leaders and not a mandate of the people of those States, that formed the Confederacy. There was no vote on the matter after all in any of those States.
And there is no doubt whatsoever that it was done to preserve slavery in a time when slavery had reached it's natural end as abolishment of slavery had come to maturity. It was realized and accepted to be abhorrent. The south had to face a choice, abolish slavery or go to war to preserve it, they chose war, they got war, they lost. They resorted to lynchings, segregation, and poll taxes to keep their foot on the race they considered less human.
Now we are to believe that it is all a misrepresentation and skewing of history. That it was actually Lincoln that was a despotic tyrant, not those Confederates. That Davis was an honorable man of integrity and virtue looking only to uphold the sacred rights of States. Not a US Senator turned traitor for the cause of maintaining slavery.
The facts and documents of the day, and since then in the behavior (lynchings, segregation, poll taxes) of the leaders clinging to the Confederate identity bear witness of the reality.
The Confederacy's actions did destroy the relationship between the States And Between those States and The Fed. They found their relationship with slavery as their economic foundation more valuable and instead chose war.
By choosing war it was those leaders of the Southern States, not Lincoln, that were the bad players. The Confederacy did permanently damaged the relationship US States had with each other and with the fed. Much the same effect hijackers had on getting on an airplane or mass shootings had on open carry. The bad players will inevitably wreck a good thing.
copenhagen
New member
Actually Brux, I'm laughing at how IMHO it seems you have demonized the Confederacy. The Confederate States of America is a heritage that I and many other Southerners are still very much proud of, and I found it comical to hear you demonize it and paint it out to be something it was not.
I have no further arguments, and do not desire to argue the subject. Let's agree to disagree shall we?
I still have to say I believe that Woodrow Wilson was the worst President (back to the OP), and I would point out the Federal Reserve printing and its inflationary practices as the prime reason.
Ruthless4christ
New member
the exact reason i retired from this debate, I refer back to my posts, and you will find plenty of quotes from newspapers and people of the era...ah but im just a rebel nut, and am misquoting it all
Ruthless4christ
New member
plus i did not want to be anywhere in sight when this thing gets locked, which i believe is pretty soon...
Alot of truth in that. The presentation of out of context quotes to misreprent Lincoln and flat misinformation to bolster the revisionist history has been consistantly corrected by HJB. Yet his corrections are left unrebuttled. There has been quite alot of misquoting and it has been shown to be that.
The letters of secession, the Confederate Constitution, Davis' address to the Confederate Congress, and the statements of Davis himself all indicate that the Confederecey was formed directly to counter the abolishment of slavery. Those historic records show that the States' rights embellishing it were the States' rights to slavery. The property rights are the rights to slaves as property. Secession was an act of the leaders, not the people, of the south. NO ELECTION took place to make this a will of the people move. It is factual that this was done as an act of sedition by leaders of those States and headed by a US Senator, Jefferson Davis.
There has been numberous factual points brought to bear that directly discount this 'Lincoln was a tyrant' lie. The tyrants were those that held slavery above their nation. Human bondage as means of financial gain over their convenent with the other States in the United States. They chose war instead of abolishing slavery.
By choosing war it was those leaders of the Southern States, not Lincoln, that were the bad players. The Confederacy did permanently damaged the relationship US States had with each other and with the fed. Much the same effect hijackers had on getting on an airplane or mass shootings had on open carry. The bad players will inevitably wreck a good thing.
Followed up with segregation, lynchings, Jim Crow laws, and poll taxes. Now we are to believe that it is all a misrepresentation and skewing of history. That it was actually Lincoln that was a despotic tyrant, not those Confederates. That Davis was an honorable man of integrity and virtue looking only to uphold the sacred rights of States. Not a US Senator turned traitor for the cause of maintaining slavery.
Facts were brought to bear and still stand unrebuttled. Lacking that it's hard to pull this:
Letters of secession, Confederate Constitution, Davis' own words IN CONTEXT, and Lincoln's own words IN CONTEXT have been used to debunk the myth of a righteous Confederecy, not just opinion.
The ONLY way all that could be earnestly held as righteous is IF blacks are truly lesser humans. One would have to have that belief for it to fit.
The federal government did not have the right to regulate states, if a state wanted slavery then thats their choice and the federal government has no place telling them what they can/can't do in their own borders.
All the other things you listed like lynchings were a result ultimately of Lincoln.
All the other things you listed like lynchings were a result ultimately of Lincoln.
Are you guys still fighting the Civil War?
Captain Obvious says "The Civil War is over, the South lost"
Captain Obvious says "The Civil War is over, the South lost"
So far-
-States' rights trump human rights and the STATE decides morality...hrmmm
-Lincoln advocated lynching......wow......still waiting to hear the substance to that that one......just opinion maybe....
Got some more gems? So far the last line of one of my prior post still applies....
-States' rights trump human rights and the STATE decides morality...hrmmm
-Lincoln advocated lynching......wow......still waiting to hear the substance to that that one......just opinion maybe....
Got some more gems? So far the last line of one of my prior post still applies....
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