Police Shoot Handcuffed Man in the Back

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The officer should certainly be charged with a crime. What that crime is will depend on the details of the incident.

Whether or not he is guilty of that crime is for a jury to decide. Let's remember he is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
 
I am guessing this was accidental in which case he should face charges whatever they call negligent manslaughter. My understanding is the officer was holding the gun low at a spot hat would not be lethal. It hit the floor ricochet and came back up through his "lungs." Not sure how it could hit both, but that is what the article I read stated.

No way. No LE agency trains 'shoot to wound'. And I doubt a ricochet would retain enough velocity to penetrate a lung. He was shot in the back and this is a homicide. The DA will specify what sort of homicide. IMO this goes way beyond any disciplinary action. This officer will be terminated, after due process, probably charged and convicted of something, but probably will not do time. His life is ruined, but at least he still has one.
 
,,its about cops and who they think they are,,,cops are born week humans, to get a sense of power or whatever,, they become cops just so they can get even with society for always picking on them,,,

As Antipitas previously stated, please refrain from police bashing. It serves no useful purpose and is a good way to get banned from this board.

PS. It is "weak".
 
I really am sorry for that,,I was just very angry at seeing that video,,,and your right,,if the media and press would show more positive actions of officers instead of all the negative,,we as the general public would have a better perception of them,,,and again, I apologize for my words,,but not my thoughts,,,
 
No LE agency trains 'shoot to wound'.
He was either going to tase the guy or he was not intending to pull the trigger. It certainly would not be the first time a trained officer got nervous and accidentally put pressure on the trigger.
 
It's pretty obvious that is was "accidental", no sane person would do that intentionally. Stupid, negligent, inexcusable? No doubt. But accidental.

A tragedy all around.

Sure..you betcha. Lets just give the officer a pass this time. He was doing a tough job and he meant well...when he shot an unarmed man who was lying prone on the pavement with another officer holding him down.

All police officers should receive a pass in similar situations, because...they mean well! :)

Now, all you mere "civilians", don't nun of you go gettin' any ideas that you can do the same. We have laws against homicide, you know...

You or I would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! In an incident like this, an officer is put on paid administrative leave, while his department conducts an internal investigation/shooting review, enroute to a conclusion of "justified".

Police officers can't commit murder, nor manslaughter, nor negligent homicide, because, you know....THEY mean well!

All you sheeple, just put your heads down and pretend not to notice. If you don't think about these things then, they didn't happen!

Just submit and comply and behave like a good little WOMAN and everything should be fine.
 
That cop should never be allowed to see the sun again. Period.

If you hold a guy in cuffs down and I shoot him in the head then what is going to happen to me? Same thing that should happen to that cop. Being a police officer should be a responsibilty not an excuse.
 
I'm glad that was edited out, before I came back and saw it.

Read them rules, RocketRider. I'm dead serious about enforcement. We will not have another L&P debacle here.

Feel free to PM or email me about anything you (or anyone else) don't understand.

The officer did what he did. The Courts will sort it out.
 
I would like to apoligize to the LEO'S and anyone else that took my words to heart,,Those where words of anger,,and this was not the place to spew such statements,,,,,,thank you,,
 
Meaning that if the facts show the victim resisting arrest (which looks likely) and he was committing a crime which resulted in the confrontation with the police (which also seems likely), compensation should be much, much lower.

There goes presumption of innocence, eh? ;)



I think it's time for an Occam's Razor check. The idea that this was an intentional shooting seems much less likely than it being an unintentional shooting (meaning that, given that Tasers do generally have very similar form factors, the "thought it was his Taser" excuse is perfectly plausible). I've known good cops. I've known, and met, bad cops.

I've never met a cop this bad. In front of a crowd, many of whom obviously have cellphones and cameras out to film what's happening? The idea that this was an intentional homicide is...not quite absurd (crazier things have happened), but highly unlikely.

That's why I was curious regarding what legal ramifications an officer is likely to face in such a situation. I've always been under the impression that legally police officers are given pretty wide latitude regarding criminal liability for uses of force, so I guess I was just wondering if it was generally this wide. Assuming this is found to be accidental, what criminal penalties would an officer in California even face? Compared to what a regular firearm owner would face for an accidental shooting.

I'm sure the city can expect to write a big check either way, of course.


Also I have to agree that, thinking about it, making Tasers so functionally similar to firearms may not have been the brightest idea ever. Would require a bit of extra training if they used some form of different trigger, of course, but maybe that would be worth it.
 
The whole confusing a Taser for a firearm thing just...confuses me. Generally, every agency around here that uses them (ours included) requires they be carried on the weak side. One agency even went so far as to order the bright yellow taser to help prevent the whole confusion issue.

Oh for the days when we had just a stick and a firearm. It made things so much easier in some cases. Now, you have to go through the whole mental checklist of the bat belt to decide which of the new fangled, less lethal do-dads to use. Sometimes, too many choices is a bad thing.
 
Yeah my problem with grabbing the wrong tool is that the officer had to have very little training with both to confuse them. Heck I can reach for a tool while laying on my back under the car and feel the difference in 2 different wrenches. Having no experience with tazers I am willing to bet dollars against doughnuts that the overall weight, weight bias, grip feel, trigger feel etc. are different 'tween the two...
Brent
 
What went awry?

1. Pulling the gun instead of the taser - that's possible under stress. Folks underestimate the brain fades that occur under stress. There's a big literature on such. And folks just make dumb mistakes. How many guns are unloaded and kill - even in training exercises by professionals? People leave their babies in car seats to die in the heat. What is more important than your baby.

2. Pulled the gun on purpose and then had an ND. That happens also. Bad trigger control initially or the finger went to the trigger under stress. Gun designs have what is known as an affordance - meaning the design channels the function to put the finger on the trigger almost automatically. Then with some stress or movement - bang. I know of two videos where an officer runs up to a downed and controlled suspect and fires a round near the head of such and feet of colleagues. One was a female officer with a Beretta, IIRC, and the second was a male with an MP-5. In the latter case, there was some claim that the suspect was being unruly so the officer fired a round near his noggin to make him behave. But from the clip, that was a touch after the fact.

One doesn't have to look for malacious behavior to explain this and one should remember it is not that unusual. However, this doesn't mean that the appropriate processes should not deal with the aftermath in terms of penalty - legal and financial.
 
Just submit and comply and behave like a good little WOMAN and everything should be fine.

Yes, because the worst insult you can throw at someone is to call them a female.

And because we know that all women are compliant, sheep-like victims, and are completely unable and unwilling to stand up for themselves.

And because, of course, every thread can be improved with a snide reference to forcible rape, even when it really has nothing whatsoever to do with the original topic. Bonus points if the poster manages say something demeaning about women who get raped, without actually saying anything negative about rapists.

Back on topic: horrible event. Feel sorry for all involved. Plenty of room for outrage here, but I'm not sure the frothing-at-the-mouth responses really help understand what happened or how to prevent it happening again.

Actions have consequences. Always have, always will. Sometimes, the consequences seem a bit out of line with the size of the offense, especially when no harm was ever intended. As an example, I know a teenager who rolled a truck this past summer. No alcohol or drugs involved, nothing at all like that. The physical consequence of his inexperience behind the wheel was that the truck rolled when a tire blew after he took a corner slightly too fast. The financial consequence was the loss of the truck, a huge increase in his insurance costs, and some $30,000 in medical bills for two people who walked out of the hospital the next day with [case 1] no lasting injury whatsoever, and [case 2] a small laceration that required six stitches to close. The legal consequence was that the state was looking at felony charges against the teenager, but eventually settled on "only" pulling his driver's license (and thus throwing him out of a job) instead. All the above seems a bit out of proportion since the kid never intended any harm -- but nonetheless, harm was done. And even unintentional actions have consequences.

Same here. Cop almost certainly did not intend this outcome, but this outcome is the result of his actions all the same. Following the strict letter of manslaughter law against him might seem harsh, but that's the nature of a law that is (by definition) aimed at "accidental" acts.

A murder charge would not be appropriate here, because it would be difficult or impossible to establish the existence of malice, which is the sine qua non for a murder conviction.

No criminal charge at all? Well, that's the way it's most likely to go -- but manslaughter laws are on the books for a reason.

One of the consequences for an "accidental" shooting should always be a careful and dispassionate attempt to understand what went wrong and how it happened. In this case, there's still so little to go on that it's difficult to post anything useful -- but it might be worthwhile to discuss the costs vs the benefits of carrying a less-lethal weapon (Taser) that so closely resembles a firearm. Humans do make mistakes, so the question is what can be done next to minimize or eliminate this particular type of mistake.

pax
 
This incident has made me a bit fearful of riots in response. There have been some reported instances of such. I live much too close to this stuff for comfort, and when juxtaposed with Palestinian protests I'll be glad if I can get out of this state soon.
 
do you know a good cop?

Of course there are, and good cops outnumber the bad ones by the considerable margin.

It's like what my leadership teacher once said: "99 percent of people are good folks, it's the 1 percent that causes 99 percent of the problems."
 
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