Police Or Commandos?

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If we leave aside the question of whether such funds are a good use of the tax-payers contributions it seems to me that the crux of this issue is simply "do you trust your police force to use that equipment responsibly and in keeping with their duty to society?"
This ties in with MLeake's point about "utilisation".

But the question can be stretched further to whether or not people trust their government to use the police responsibly and in keeping with its duty to society.

If the answer to either of those is "no", then you have a problem that goes beyond simply what gear the police have...
 
From all the discussions, I still can't get my mind wrapped around the complaints that the police aren't doing enough to protect people to the complaints about not wanting to pay for more police to the complaints that the police are too powerful...despite the diminishing amounts of violent crime.

As near as I can tell from the threads here, reguardless of what the police are or are not doing, they will be the focal point for complaining about problems of our society.
 
That's true but they're not the only government agency that has a lot of complaints. Think of public schools. They are expected to accomodate everyone and to turn out good young Americans. But don't worry. People will turn out to be Americans whether or not their parents like it or not.
 
Call me old fashion, but I don't think its the fancy equipment, its the street cop, the street cop that takes the time to get out of the car and interacts with the public.

Tasers, pepper spray, 'n such is just an excuse for not using good people skills a good street cop should possess.

Its not the fancy CSI stuff that solves crimes. Its the cop's ability to talk to people and get them to confess. It's a art I fear is disappearing. Gone the way of the "beat cop".
 
I think, given limited resources, it's money mispent.

We have a huge backlog of DNA evidence that has yet to be tested, analyzed and cataloged, because there is a shortage of laboratories and technicians - because it is not being adequately funded.

We could use another 50 labs in this country, as well as better computer systems and better networks to link our various LEAs and the various levels.

But that kind of spending is dull, boring, doesn't make police unions or police officers themselves all that happy. Whereas many of the beneficiaries of the weapons systems type of spending find the whole process rather fun and exciting.
 
equip their police as though they are going to war; but with whom?
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With us Citizens, silly. Where have you been? J/K. :D

It was a fundamental precept of this country to have no standing army. They're totally militarized now and it is an act of aggression unless they want to play with word definitions like Slick Willie did. It's no secret either. You can turn on the tube and watch Cops pillage and plunder the Citizenry for minor offenses 7 days a week with Cable TV.
 
Its not the fancy CSI stuff that solves crimes. Its the cop's ability to talk to people and get them to confess. It's a art I fear is disappearing. Gone the way of the "beat cop".
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I dunno... Maybe in Alaska or Wyoming, but not around here (Indiana). :)

Pretty much every case that comes across my desk where the fellow wasn't caught in a bad-looking situation was taken to the courts by way of some very crafty questioning. And I'm not talking about yelling at them until they say something stupid or ask for a lawyer, either. There are some very sophisticated techniques being practiced not only by the detectives, but by lowly patrolmen as well.

It makes my job harder as a defense attorney, but I can't help but admire their tradecraft.
 
If i tilt my tinfoil hat just right, i am reminded that i would MUCH prefer that the local constabulary be overly well-armed and dressed like stormtroopers to having a larger federal "police" presence. When the rubber hits the road, i believe the local boys will remember who their neighbors/employers are. (tinfoil hat off)

That said, i do miss the days of the smartly dressed police officer in an almost "suit-like" uniform that brought forth emotions of admiration and maybe a little awe or envy, rather than fear or trepidation seen today, in the children of my early childhood and grade school classes on those occasions when such paths crossed (most often for a school presentation by the officer). I can remember selling Christmas trees for a local charity on the same shift as the local Police Chief (now a judge) and being impressed with how nice his DRESS uniform looked and the way the customers looked at it. When i left Memphis last, the sight of a person clad in all black with a ski mask and a helmet was not an indicator of an impending comic book convention of GI JOE fans imitating one of their favorite characters, it was just one of the officers from the Gang Unit (a much needed force in Memphis, no doubt).
 
OK but where do these policemen come from? Are they from some foreign country brought in to terrorize and control the inhabitants? Or are they the children of your neighbors?

I do like the idea of bringing back a proper policeman's uniform but that ain't gonna happen. I work in an office, wear a tie but I haven't worn a suit in years. Overseas, I understand there is a movement for all policemen everywhere to dress more or less the same in blue uniforms.
 
Garbage

Municipal/county/state police are not "militarizing" in any sense. There is no provision to "federalize" them like the state national guard. Even under the Patriot Act or other legislation. In the practical sense, the infra-structure and logistical problems alone prevent it for now. Hell the DoD refuse to even give their civilian cops ANY statutory arrest authority at all, and MP's are restricted by posse comitatus
Has a significant pile of Homeland Security grant $$$ been thrown at the states in the last decade? Absolutely. Is that indictative of our civilian police forces being molded into a single par-military entity...Ah NO!!!!!!!
:eek:
 
mpd61, I think you are confusing "militarized" with "nationalized" or "federalized."

Military style uniforms, military grade equipment, and military assault tactics (IE most things SWAT), when increased in amount and rate of use, could very justifiably be described as "militarized."

The gear isn't the issue, though - it's the mindset that often seems to accompany it. "Hey, we've got this SWAT team..."
 
It's not their equipment I object to,,,

In fact I believe they should have whatever they need to catch the bad guys,,,

It's the militarization of their general attitudes I strongly object to.

<RANT>

When the cops start acting like every citizen is someone they need to put into submission so they can do their jobs,,,
They need to redefine exactly what their job actually consists of.

I'm also tired of law enforcement referring to me as a civilian,,,
I'm a citizen dag-nabbit and they must never forget that I'm why their job exists!

Too many police officers have adopted the attitude of,,,
Arrest them all, let the courts sort out the innocents,,,
They have forgotten we are the ones they swore to,,,
"Serve and Protect".

This is the militarization people are not willing to accept,,,
It's their para-military attitudes, not their military equipment.

I do believe this type of LEO is still in the minority,,,
But that minority is doing a great job of alienating LEO personnel from the citizenry in general.

</RANT>

Aarond
 
When the cops start acting like every citizen is someone they need to put into submission so they can do their jobs,,,
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... which is precisely why I resist offering information such as my CWL or the presence of a loaded firearm in my car unless required to by law. Even if most cops are civil, I don't want to meet the odd nutjob who thinks it necessary to lay me out on the pavement and search my car.
 
The State's legit military force is called the National Guard, and that is where it should stay. If military equipment is actually needed by the police, a local force can ask the Gov for NG assistance, and if for a legit reason, it would be provided.
 
I wear BDU's every day, because I am a truck inspector on top of a patrol trooper. I don't really care what I wear, but the "fancy" gray uniforms we wear are very expensive and it's impossible to get oil and grease out of them.

I believe 9 times out of 10, it's a money issue, BDU's are cheap.
 
No, people are no worse than they ever were. You could be accused at looking at the past through rose-colored glasses, you know. Drugs and violence are no more acceptable now than they were during prohibition. The culture of our nation has changed, of course, because it is always changing. If you want to send the Mexicans back to Mexico and the nice people from Peru back to the mountains where then came from, then you might want to think about sending the Italians back to Italy, the Greeks back to Greece, and the Irish back to Ireland. But I think we ought to keep the Germans.
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Im not going to touch the politics of it.... I will leave it at illegal is illegal no matter what the crime, be it jay walking or murder or anywhere in between. Culture changes I would point to I personally consider to be mostly product of mass media... It seems what you see on tv becomes acceptable in the eyes of the youth even if it is not in actuality acceptable to the masses.

When I was a kid if I was bad at my neighbors I got a swat there and sent home and then I got a swat from my mom when I got home and then when dad got home I got a swat yet again.....

Try that today and you go to prison... Right or wrong what the mass media promotes more often than not seems to become reality for all the wrong reasons...
 
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