May not be where you are, I live in a suburb of Nashville, population of our county is just shy of 120,000. A mixture of rural and urban areas, yet we have a city,and county police force that are 150 + strong combined. 2 swat teams complete with 2 APC's , and an arsenal of weapons that would look more at home on a military installation than in a police environment. Our newspapers are constantly sporting pictures, and stories of these units in action. They seem to be the tool of choice for serving most warrants these days.
Police Or Commandos?
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May not be where you are, I live in a suburb of Nashville, population of our county is just shy of 120,000. A mixture of rural and urban areas, yet we have a city,and county police force that are 150 + strong combined. 2 swat teams complete with 2 APC's , and an arsenal of weapons that would look more at home on a military installation than in a police environment. Our newspapers are constantly sporting pictures, and stories of these units in action. They seem to be the tool of choice for serving most warrants these days.
I am concerned about the report that Police deaths are up this year - highest since 1969 (Talk about Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young).
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/28/9775223-police-deaths-rise-sharply-again
In actuality - one of the best tools for police officers is a computer right in their sqaud car and high-speed network connections that link their computer with databses so they can instantly run plates, and licenses.
There are a lot of ways technology could help officers but there isn't the funding or the will to spend the money in those ways.
I also worry about the Brady Campaign or LCAV using their "goofy math" to coorelate officer deaths with CCW laws / increased gun sales or some such nonsense.
But anyway, there does seem to be a line of reasoning that preventing officer deaths means arming them better - like bigger better more lethal weapon systems.
It does make me angry when the Chicago Chief of Police makes statements about crime saying "we can't arrest our way out of this problem" as an indirect way of responding to calls for hiring more police.
Hiring more police as a general response to crime is one thing, but hiring more police so that officers can quikly back each other up is another thing.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/28/9775223-police-deaths-rise-sharply-again
In actuality - one of the best tools for police officers is a computer right in their sqaud car and high-speed network connections that link their computer with databses so they can instantly run plates, and licenses.
There are a lot of ways technology could help officers but there isn't the funding or the will to spend the money in those ways.
I also worry about the Brady Campaign or LCAV using their "goofy math" to coorelate officer deaths with CCW laws / increased gun sales or some such nonsense.
But anyway, there does seem to be a line of reasoning that preventing officer deaths means arming them better - like bigger better more lethal weapon systems.
It does make me angry when the Chicago Chief of Police makes statements about crime saying "we can't arrest our way out of this problem" as an indirect way of responding to calls for hiring more police.
Hiring more police as a general response to crime is one thing, but hiring more police so that officers can quikly back each other up is another thing.
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Talking about the militarization of our police forces makes me wonder about the use of our military as a police force, as was done in Iraq to some extent. The two shouldn't be mixed so much, IMO. Military should fight wars to win, while the police forces should police the homefront within the limits established by our society. Neither force should be bound by the regulations, treaties, or agreements that bind the other, IMO.
I do feel that LEO's should be using good HP ammo regardless of the military's choice to limit themselves to ball/fmj ammunition.
I do feel that LEO's should be using good HP ammo regardless of the military's choice to limit themselves to ball/fmj ammunition.
Posse Comitatus
And a personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales for money:
Posse Comitatus Act
And a personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales for money:
Posse Comitatus Act
I think when police officers are being killed, it's easy to call for more armament. And conversely it's more difficult to arrgue that money could be spent more effectively.
Way back in 1990 the Army was working with the Border Patrol doing Ground Surveilance Radar deployments to detect smugglers / immigrants illegally crossing the Mexican border into the U.S. But there are limits to how much the military can help law enforcement. So given those limits, we see increased militarization of the police.
Given what we've read of the Mexican border and the death of Bryan Terry, and other incidents - there's no doubt in my mind that it's a war zone down there.
Way back in 1990 the Army was working with the Border Patrol doing Ground Surveilance Radar deployments to detect smugglers / immigrants illegally crossing the Mexican border into the U.S. But there are limits to how much the military can help law enforcement. So given those limits, we see increased militarization of the police.
Given what we've read of the Mexican border and the death of Bryan Terry, and other incidents - there's no doubt in my mind that it's a war zone down there.
The opposite is also true. We don't need to get the military peanut butter into the civilian chocolate. It will not make a delicious snack. We have kept that door well closed since the War Between the States with a few notable exceptions for revolts and other mass civil unrest. The DOD does not statutory civilian arrest powers in any way shape or form. Give DOD cops arrest powers and you are opening the door for the military.
MTT TL
I'm not trying to grind on you but there are no absolutes in this. you say:
"The DOD does not statutory civilian arrest powers in any way shape or form."[/I]
Not true, NCIS, CID, AFOSI, are civilian employees of the DoD components with plenty of statutory arrest authority.
Again, there is no tangible evidence that our municipal/county/state police and sheriffs are becoming "militarized" in ANY way with the exception of a few BDU style uniforms.
I'm not trying to grind on you but there are no absolutes in this. you say:
"The DOD does not statutory civilian arrest powers in any way shape or form."[/I]
Not true, NCIS, CID, AFOSI, are civilian employees of the DoD components with plenty of statutory arrest authority.
Again, there is no tangible evidence that our municipal/county/state police and sheriffs are becoming "militarized" in ANY way with the exception of a few BDU style uniforms.
Not sure what you mean by "plenty". Yes, civilian agents can arrest people for violations of federal law. The numbers of people you are talking about are tiny though. There are less civilian CID agents in the whole Army in the entire world than there are Civilian Guards in Texas for example. With their case load they can not even keep up with military crimes.
While NCIS may have a TV show about them combine all of the services together and you still have less than the number of cops in a small metropolitan police department.
While NCIS may have a TV show about them combine all of the services together and you still have less than the number of cops in a small metropolitan police department.
Police or commandos? I believe it’s evolving into commandos. No, I fear it’s evolving into commandos. Let me tell you a true story that happened in a town near me a few years ago.
Guy that lived in the city limits of this town. Seemed he liked to collect things. Things you or I would consider junk. His junk collection spread over the years to his back yard, then the side yards, then the front yard. The town sent him multiple letters asking him to clean up his property. He didn’t. The town went to court to get a Judge to make it a court order. He still didn’t clean it up.
The County Sheriff at the time stopped by to warn the guy, he had to clean up his property. The guy told the Sheriff to go fly a kite, in not so nice of terms. He still didn’t clean it up. So, the County Sheriff, no less then five Deputies, two State Police, three or four dump trucks and an end loader paid the guy a visit. He was not home, so they cleaned up his property for him.
No thing wrong with that you say? Well, the County Sheriff and his Deputies where all clad in camouflage BDU’s and were carrying AR15’s on the guys property while over seeing the clean up process. Now this is not normal attire for County Deputies. They normally wear dark blue uniforms. Think about this. Camouflage BDU’s and AR15’s just to watch an end loader clean up some trash?
The rationality behind it all was the guy with the trash in his yard was a gun owner. That was all, he was a gun owner. Later that day the guy was pulled over by a County Deputy 20 miles from home. He was at his brother’s house visiting. The guy had an SKS rifle and 100 rounds of ammo with him. All legal, but the local media blew it up to make it look like the guy was some kind of militia kook. No charges were filed. The guy did nothing wrong. He was forced to reimburse the county for the clean up. That is all.
All of the above is true. Pictures in the local news paper of the police in BDU’s and carrying AR15’s. And my brother-in-law saw it unfold, he lives two doors down.
Police or commandos? Again I say, I believe it’s evolving into commandos. Disagree? That’s fine…..
Guy that lived in the city limits of this town. Seemed he liked to collect things. Things you or I would consider junk. His junk collection spread over the years to his back yard, then the side yards, then the front yard. The town sent him multiple letters asking him to clean up his property. He didn’t. The town went to court to get a Judge to make it a court order. He still didn’t clean it up.
The County Sheriff at the time stopped by to warn the guy, he had to clean up his property. The guy told the Sheriff to go fly a kite, in not so nice of terms. He still didn’t clean it up. So, the County Sheriff, no less then five Deputies, two State Police, three or four dump trucks and an end loader paid the guy a visit. He was not home, so they cleaned up his property for him.
No thing wrong with that you say? Well, the County Sheriff and his Deputies where all clad in camouflage BDU’s and were carrying AR15’s on the guys property while over seeing the clean up process. Now this is not normal attire for County Deputies. They normally wear dark blue uniforms. Think about this. Camouflage BDU’s and AR15’s just to watch an end loader clean up some trash?
The rationality behind it all was the guy with the trash in his yard was a gun owner. That was all, he was a gun owner. Later that day the guy was pulled over by a County Deputy 20 miles from home. He was at his brother’s house visiting. The guy had an SKS rifle and 100 rounds of ammo with him. All legal, but the local media blew it up to make it look like the guy was some kind of militia kook. No charges were filed. The guy did nothing wrong. He was forced to reimburse the county for the clean up. That is all.
All of the above is true. Pictures in the local news paper of the police in BDU’s and carrying AR15’s. And my brother-in-law saw it unfold, he lives two doors down.
Police or commandos? Again I say, I believe it’s evolving into commandos. Disagree? That’s fine…..
http://www.riverreporteronline.com/...rrorism-zone-4-patrol-sullivan-other-counties
Sullivan Co is in NY's Catskill Mtns and is a very rural county .What's there to terrorize ?? Note that they tell you exactly where and when they will be !! Any real terrorist will laugh at this .And more of our taxes go to waste.
Much of this type of action is driven by gov't funding , a part of Napolitano's attempt to enlarge and empower her agency the HSA !
Sullivan Co is in NY's Catskill Mtns and is a very rural county .What's there to terrorize ?? Note that they tell you exactly where and when they will be !! Any real terrorist will laugh at this .And more of our taxes go to waste.
Much of this type of action is driven by gov't funding , a part of Napolitano's attempt to enlarge and empower her agency the HSA !
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And if that guy with with his SKS and 100 rounds was home, and started shooting, you would want your rifle and BDU's. I have seen first hand what an SKS 7.62 will go through.
Obviously the guy in question has some mental issues.
Obviously the guy in question has some mental issues.
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