Police Lasers?

Laser... I could go either way

Problem: Possible to get overly dependent on something that might have an inopportune battery failure.
Mitigation: Practice with both laser and iron sights, and become proficient with either.
Additional mitigation: Set up a preventive maintenance schedule, and include adding new batteries as part of that schedule.

Problem: Looking for the dot could affect speed on trigger.
Flipside: Focus on front sight makes it harder to scan area; easier to watch BG, and possibly additional BG's, if focus is NOT on front sight.

Problem: Laser doesn't help identify targets.
However,
Problem: Night sights don't help identify targets; neither do iron sights.

Veer problem: EOTech batteries could die.
Mitigation: Iron sights can be seen through EOTech. My AR has flip-up sights, that are zeroed. If the batteries die, I can flip them up in a second or two, and I'm none the worse for wear. In fact, I usually leave the front sight up, so I'd really only have to flip the rear into place.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I have a laser on my PM9. Works well. I don't have lasers on my other handguns, in part because they don't have rails, and in part because I trained for so many years with iron sights.

Note: the laser on my PM9 is a CTC LaserGuard. I like this much better than lasergrips, because it doesn't have any horizontal parallax issues. I have it sighted about 1/2" low at 10 yards, and get reliable hits with it on 25yd targets, so the argument about distance is kind of silly - except in very bright light conditions, or if my target is wearing bright red.

Note2: lasers are awesome tools for dry-fire practice, and for training away flinches.

So what is my overall point?

Train with whatever you are using. Know your equipment and its limitations. Train for operation in degraded modes. Don't knock what the other guy is using if you haven't tried it (with exceptions - some things would obviously be stupid; using lasers isn't one of them.)

Cheers,

M
 
The tendency being to try to aim the gun with the laser while the bad guy gets off the 1st shots. Is this true?
Click to expand...

IIRC, that is what Jeff Cooper found when he examined the problem back in the 90's ..... people wasted time looking for the red dot on the target, and moving the dot to where they wanted it, instead of presenting the pistol with the front sight on the target (flash sight picture) and squeezing the trigger.
 
Question for JimBob86, plus personal observations

With regard to Cooper's study:

Since it was done in the 90's sometime, the question is begged - how much experience and training did the shooters in Cooper's study actually have with lasers?

If these people were relatively unfamiliar, then reductions in performance should have been expected, and may be meaningless for purposes of this discussion.

A link to the study would be helpful, if you have one.

As far as point shooting goes, a couple of observations:

1) I winnow out guns from my collection, or select guns from my collection for CCW, based on several factors:
a) will it go bang when I pull the trigger?
b) can I hit my target with it?
c) do I have to work hard to hit my target with it?

c) basically addresses a pair of factors:
c)i. pointability (for me, I don't care how it points for somebody else)
c)ii. trigger (again, for me personally)

and

2) a laser can be a HUGE aid for point shooting, since during dry-fire practice one can (and I do) draw and point, then squeeze to see where the dot is relative to where one thought it would be.

I could try to do the same thing (and do with my non-laser handguns) by moving my eye to the sights after pointing. However, the problem with that is I can't be entirely sure that I haven't moved the gun while bringing my eye to bear. It works, but it works better with the laser.

This goes back to my earlier post: If you train with your weapon, you can reap lots of advantages. If you don't train with it adequately or intelligently, you can sow lots of disasters.

Cheers,

M
 
I read it somewhere in his comentaries, IIRC ... am unable to find it with a quick search.

As I remember it, he did have a use for a laser pistol sight- his dog enjoyed chasing the dot around the living room floor...
 
Dogs and lasers

My pup (the 9 month old) loves chasing laser dots, too; it's one of his favorite things. My older dog thinks he's nuts. Not sure what the middle dog thinks, since I won't be home until November to meet her (acquired in my absence... I'm a few thousand miles away).

However, I don't want my dog to get in the habit of running in front of a pistol, and I don't want myself in the habit of pointing a handgun all over the place (including at my dog).

So, bought a dedicated laser pointer for a dog toy.
 
lasers, rifles, and target ID

Forgot to mention earlier in the laser/EOTech discussion:

My AR sports a CTC laser, too. It's a foregrip mount. Laser is on the left of the grip mount, and a high intensity light is on the right. One button arms the laser, and another arms the light. Strobe modes are available.

So, some lasers can actually facilitate target ID - assuming they have a light attached.

I get a hefty discount on CTC gear, among other brands, so this grip only cost $200 or so.

Cheers,

M
 
I am not a LEO...but I have a laser on the rail of my Taurus 24/7 Pro Compact .45 ACP, which is my home defense weapon.

I do not have a laser on my conceal carry pistol, nor on the Taurus Judge I carry in the console of my vehicle.
 
lasers

We were not allowed to have a laser on our duty weapons. No reason given it was just written in the rules and regs. I had Night sights for the last 15 plus years of my career.


Joe
Retired Patrol Sgt
Monticello NY PD
 
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