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Police CCW exemptions
- Thread starter alloy
- Start date
Then get a different job.
It's just a job. It's a dangerous job, and one with crappy working hours, but it's just a job. You're fairly well paid for doing it, and you can quit at any time. But even if it were the most dangerous job out there (it isn't), and even if you were under contract not to quit (you aren't), it still would not give you any more rights and privileges than any other citizen. (I'd use the word "civilian", since cops are civilians, but I wouldn't extend special rights to members of the military either... and I was one.)
It's not "police bashing" to hold to a principle of the equality of all citizens before the law, or to assert that one's choice of employment shouldn't grant any special status.
You guys to a tough job, and one that needs done. But that does not make you special, nor entitle you to the free exercise of basic rights that are denied to your fellow citizens.
I fail to see how there is any aspect of "cop-bashing", which is all too often defined as "any position which is opposed by, or tends to diminish the superior status of, the police," in any of what is being said. If people were saying that police officers were less to be trusted with concealed weapons than the rest of us, and that they should be restricted in their rights based on their freely-chosen profession, , that would be cop bashing, and would be deservedly called out as such, by me and many others. But the reverse statement, that all citizens, regardless of their freely-chosen profession, are entitled to the same rights and the same protections of those rights, is by no means bashing anyone.
You are not special. I am not special. We are all equal before the law.
--Shannon
Tubee, tell you what, tell my department I don't have to take police action 24/7 regardless of my duty status and I will agree with you. Until such time please do not opine when you are mistaken in your assertion.
This Police bashing is getting tiresome.
It's just a job. It's a dangerous job, and one with crappy working hours, but it's just a job. You're fairly well paid for doing it, and you can quit at any time. But even if it were the most dangerous job out there (it isn't), and even if you were under contract not to quit (you aren't), it still would not give you any more rights and privileges than any other citizen. (I'd use the word "civilian", since cops are civilians, but I wouldn't extend special rights to members of the military either... and I was one.)
It's not "police bashing" to hold to a principle of the equality of all citizens before the law, or to assert that one's choice of employment shouldn't grant any special status.
You guys to a tough job, and one that needs done. But that does not make you special, nor entitle you to the free exercise of basic rights that are denied to your fellow citizens.
I fail to see how there is any aspect of "cop-bashing", which is all too often defined as "any position which is opposed by, or tends to diminish the superior status of, the police," in any of what is being said. If people were saying that police officers were less to be trusted with concealed weapons than the rest of us, and that they should be restricted in their rights based on their freely-chosen profession, , that would be cop bashing, and would be deservedly called out as such, by me and many others. But the reverse statement, that all citizens, regardless of their freely-chosen profession, are entitled to the same rights and the same protections of those rights, is by no means bashing anyone.
You are not special. I am not special. We are all equal before the law.
--Shannon
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
If the officer is mandated to respond when off duty - do we agree that carrying is not an exemption?
So, Wagonman was talking to that specific aspect.
Do we want officers who are not on the official clock to be specifically instructed to take no action as an officer when not on the clock, even if not mandate to do such. So they would have no arrest powers if not on the clock?
Again - we should try to expand civilian rights rather than go the other way.
So, Wagonman was talking to that specific aspect.
Do we want officers who are not on the official clock to be specifically instructed to take no action as an officer when not on the clock, even if not mandate to do such. So they would have no arrest powers if not on the clock?
Again - we should try to expand civilian rights rather than go the other way.
How fast would CCW restrictions relax for the rest of us, if the police exemptions were done away with, meaning CCW in restaurants, schools, crossing state lines, etc. Why doesn't the NRA go after the police exemptions so that we all end up on the same page?
Where I'm from, police are police 24 hours a day. They have the duty and responsibility anywhere in their jurisdiction. Therefore they carry anywhere with few exceptions.
You're fairly well paid for doing it,
You are kidding right?
HR218 did not increase freedom by one iota. It extended a privilege that a few people have based solely on their status as government employees.I was against H.R.218 for the very same reasons I am against the Feds legislating national reciprocity. There is no Constitutional authority.
Isn't more freedom a good thing?
it would be like the feds decreeing that some subset of government employees could vote in every state, regardless of the law in that state.
My answer is yes. The number of off duty arrests is miniscule anyway.Do we want officers who are not on the official clock to be specifically instructed to take no action as an officer when not on the clock, even if not mandate to do such. So they would have no arrest powers if not on the clock?
If it was me, they would leave their badge at the station house when they go off duty, and would pick it back up when they go back on duty, just like their radio, and squad car. I do realize this might have some logistical issues that make it impractical.
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Average is 45K - with some places down to 20K and big cities up to 70K.
What's fairly well paid mean? I don't think these are exhorbant salaries compared to real winners who are the captains of our industries which are failing?
45K to deal with bad people isn't that much money.
What's fairly well paid mean? I don't think these are exhorbant salaries compared to real winners who are the captains of our industries which are failing?
45K to deal with bad people isn't that much money.
I don't know if that is a good average, but around here its pretty typical. But I don't know that mere HS is typical anymore. most rpefer at least a 2 year degree or military experience.$45k for a 20-24 yr old high school grad ain't bad either.
Like any other job, you have to want to do it to be any good at it.I don't think I'd make a good cop.
most rpefer at least a 2 year degree or military experience.
Around here, they will take you straight out of high school at 18. If you are female or a minority, they will actively recruit you. A few weeks at the local community college "police academy" course and you are good to go.
My answer is yes. The number of off duty arrests is miniscule anyway.
So is the NEED for carrying a gun. You sure are opining like someone who is anti RKBA.
If it was me, they would leave their badge at the station house when they go off duty, and would pick it back up when they go back on duty, just like their radio, and squad car. I do realize this might have some logistical issues that make it impractical.
Yeah, that's the ticket, why have off-duty Cops out there de facto patrolling for free. Sounds suspiciously like the concept of having an armory at the station and pass the gun to the next shift another idea of the antis
Conn. Trooper
New member
I would love to be "off duty" and ignore any issue I came across "off duty". However, I am required (not suggested, not allowed if I want, required) to carry my gun, badge and ID at all times. I am also required to act if I should see something "off duty", state stautes specifically spell out that we are never "off duty" unless out of the state. Failing to act can get you fired.
Your job can grant some "special" privileges that others do not enjoy. Such as when I worked at a garage I used the wrecker for free if my car broke down. My brother drove a pool water tanker and got a free tank of pool water every summer, when he worked for the Thruway he got a free EZ Pass for his car. If cops get to carry a gun places where other peolple are not allowed to, so be it. As we speak, somewhere, somehow, someone is doing something that I can't do and someone, somewhere, is doing something you can't either.
ilbob- I guess you are an expert and can explain in detail the numbers of off duty arrests that occur around the country. Please enlighten the rest of us how many off duty arrests have been made by state and city? What is the exact number that makes it miniscule? I could quote you the numbers in my state, because I know them, but I don't have a clue about the rest of the country. Maybe a slightly less sweeping statement about off duty arrests is in order. You sound like a spoiled child " They do something I can't do, waaahhh!" Great, and rich people can buy a brand new car and my truck is 8 years old, get over it.
Your job can grant some "special" privileges that others do not enjoy. Such as when I worked at a garage I used the wrecker for free if my car broke down. My brother drove a pool water tanker and got a free tank of pool water every summer, when he worked for the Thruway he got a free EZ Pass for his car. If cops get to carry a gun places where other peolple are not allowed to, so be it. As we speak, somewhere, somehow, someone is doing something that I can't do and someone, somewhere, is doing something you can't either.
ilbob- I guess you are an expert and can explain in detail the numbers of off duty arrests that occur around the country. Please enlighten the rest of us how many off duty arrests have been made by state and city? What is the exact number that makes it miniscule? I could quote you the numbers in my state, because I know them, but I don't have a clue about the rest of the country. Maybe a slightly less sweeping statement about off duty arrests is in order. You sound like a spoiled child " They do something I can't do, waaahhh!" Great, and rich people can buy a brand new car and my truck is 8 years old, get over it.
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#18indycolts
Moderator
When you're not at work, you're not a cop. When I'm not at work, I'm not an engineer.
Your job does not make you special.
It has nothing to do with being "special". Public safety workers take an oath to protect the public, either on or off duty. Some may not follow it, but a lot of us do. I'm a paramedic, and lets say I'm off duty and your mom or dad is having a heart attack or worse...you'd be ok with me turning my head and walking the other way? Your job and our jobs aren't the same. Cops are the same, off duty they can still do their job if someone needs their help. Please don't compare apples to oranges on this.
David Armstrong
Moderator
No, it is not that simple. As a general rule, when the LEO is not at work he is still under the control and authority of his agency, and still has an obligation to perform his job under certain circumstances. Many states still mandate that a LEO is considered to be on duty 24/7, as do many agency SOPs. The job doesn't make you special, but the job itself is special in the requirements it has and the duties it imposes on the person who takes the job.When you're not at work, you're not a cop. When I'm not at work, I'm not an engineer.
Your job does not make you special.
It's just that simple.
When you're not at work, you're not a cop. When I'm not at work, I'm not an engineer.
So you forget everything you know about engineering when you leave work.
Cops have "special" rights that correspond to our "special" responsibilities.
Frankly, most of our "special" powers or rights are no ones business---kinda like your CCW is only your concern.
RedneckFur
New member
While I dont really like the idea of officers being able to CCW places that I cant, I can certainly understand why they're allowed to. Especially if their department or city has a policy that claims that they are always on duty, even after hours. Its my hope that all officers who do this keep on top of their training and qualifications.
Its the same for firefighters and EMT's. If my fire pager goes off, even when I'm at home after my shift, I am still required to respond within a fairly short time limit. Failing to do so could get me reprimanded or even cause me to loose my job. I get to drive a type-6 brush truck home after work, and some might see this as a perk, but its because somtimes I'm called out after hours.
In cases like that I see the carrying a badge and gun 24/7 not so much as an extra right, but more like an added responsibility.
Its the same for firefighters and EMT's. If my fire pager goes off, even when I'm at home after my shift, I am still required to respond within a fairly short time limit. Failing to do so could get me reprimanded or even cause me to loose my job. I get to drive a type-6 brush truck home after work, and some might see this as a perk, but its because somtimes I'm called out after hours.
In cases like that I see the carrying a badge and gun 24/7 not so much as an extra right, but more like an added responsibility.
David Armstrong
Moderator
That pretty much sums it up. We get the "right" because we have the added responsibility.In cases like that I see the carrying a badge and gun 24/7 not so much as an extra right, but more like an added responsibility.
Sounds like Ibob flunked the "hello test" once too often.
hello test?
If you are required to be on duty at all times,
and required to perform the functions of your job at all times, then you should be paid 24/7/365.
The dude at Mickey D's isn't required to make me a hamburger if I'm hungry. Cops should not be required to be cops when they're off the clock.
Working is a very, very simple business arrangement. I'm trading you my time for your money. If I ain't getting paid, you ain't getting any work. If I showed up at work one morning and the building was on fire, I'd clock in before I put out the fire. And if my company refused to pay for any overtime not previously authorized by management, then let that sucker burn. I'm not getting paid, so it isn't my problem.
The flip side is also true. The fact that your employers are screwing you out of free work shouldn't grant you any rights or privileges that your fellow citizens, all equal before the law, don't get.
And if you try to pull me over on a Saturday morning when you're not at work, I won't be stopping for you. Because you stop being a cop the instant they stop paying you to be one. Anything else is you choosing to donate free labor to the city, county, or state... which isn't my, or anyone else's, problem.
Get a better deal. Don't ask for more rights.
You are not special. You have a job. Be glad. Lots of people don't.
--Shannon
and required to perform the functions of your job at all times, then you should be paid 24/7/365.
The dude at Mickey D's isn't required to make me a hamburger if I'm hungry. Cops should not be required to be cops when they're off the clock.
Working is a very, very simple business arrangement. I'm trading you my time for your money. If I ain't getting paid, you ain't getting any work. If I showed up at work one morning and the building was on fire, I'd clock in before I put out the fire. And if my company refused to pay for any overtime not previously authorized by management, then let that sucker burn. I'm not getting paid, so it isn't my problem.
The flip side is also true. The fact that your employers are screwing you out of free work shouldn't grant you any rights or privileges that your fellow citizens, all equal before the law, don't get.
And if you try to pull me over on a Saturday morning when you're not at work, I won't be stopping for you. Because you stop being a cop the instant they stop paying you to be one. Anything else is you choosing to donate free labor to the city, county, or state... which isn't my, or anyone else's, problem.
Get a better deal. Don't ask for more rights.
You are not special. You have a job. Be glad. Lots of people don't.
--Shannon
If you are required to be on duty at all times,
and required to perform the functions of your job at all times, then you should be paid 24/7/365.
The dude at Mickey D's isn't required to make me a hamburger if I'm hungry. Cops should not be required to be cops when they're off the clock.
Working is a very, very simple business arrangement. I'm trading you my time for your money. If I ain't getting paid, you ain't getting any work.
Shannon has a good point, Brings a question to mind, Under what law or authority are you LEO required to be on-duty at all times ? is this some sort of State law, or is it a condition of employment ?
If it is a Statutory requirement, please elaborate, if it is merely a condition of employment then you are definitely accepting a raw deal.