secret_agent_man
Moderator
Rumor has it they make up the diff with baton skills.
Police Cartridges in europe
- Thread starter Cossack
- Start date
Rumor has it they make up the diff with baton skills.
The 16 German States are resposible for their police forces. "Police" is generally a state "business."
The "Bundespolizei" was formed a few years ago from the Borderpatrol and the Federal Transportation Police.
The Feds and the States agreed on one unified "code" (set of rules regarding the guns and ammo of their police).
Since the late 1970s, German Police uses 9mm. Around the year 2000, they changed from FMJ to Semi-jacketed bullets. It's called the "Polizei Einsatz Patrone" ("PEP") -- rougly translated "Police Action Cartridge"
Although, it is in german, here are the technical specificatios:
http://www.nowar.de/katalog/komplet...men/9x19_qd_pep/men_9x19_qd_pep_ds_001_de.pdf
Metallwerk Elisenhütte GmbH Nassau (MEN) was the first company to offer the new cartridge a few yeras ago.
The Bundespolizei (and German Customs Service) are currently procurring the HK P30.
The state police forces have also been getting new pistols over the last years. In my home state, they have the Walther P99 in DAO, other states have the HK P2000 and the P30. The HK P7 is also still in use, as is the Walther P5. The Sig P6 (P225) was also wildly popular with some forces. But they are withdrawn from service.
Glocks are deemed to be "unsafe" for german police, so the regular police does not have them.
German police officers are also trained on sub-machine guns. The MP 5 has been the model of choice since the 1970s, some MP 7 are also around.
The hand guns are considered for self-defense purposes. If the police wants to go on the offense, the sub-machine guns appear.
The dutch government has recently decided to buy a special version of the Sig P250 for its police departments. They also decided on a special police cartridge with 95 or 98 grains
The "Bundespolizei" was formed a few years ago from the Borderpatrol and the Federal Transportation Police.
The Feds and the States agreed on one unified "code" (set of rules regarding the guns and ammo of their police).
Since the late 1970s, German Police uses 9mm. Around the year 2000, they changed from FMJ to Semi-jacketed bullets. It's called the "Polizei Einsatz Patrone" ("PEP") -- rougly translated "Police Action Cartridge"
Although, it is in german, here are the technical specificatios:
http://www.nowar.de/katalog/komplet...men/9x19_qd_pep/men_9x19_qd_pep_ds_001_de.pdf
Metallwerk Elisenhütte GmbH Nassau (MEN) was the first company to offer the new cartridge a few yeras ago.
The Bundespolizei (and German Customs Service) are currently procurring the HK P30.
The state police forces have also been getting new pistols over the last years. In my home state, they have the Walther P99 in DAO, other states have the HK P2000 and the P30. The HK P7 is also still in use, as is the Walther P5. The Sig P6 (P225) was also wildly popular with some forces. But they are withdrawn from service.
Glocks are deemed to be "unsafe" for german police, so the regular police does not have them.
German police officers are also trained on sub-machine guns. The MP 5 has been the model of choice since the 1970s, some MP 7 are also around.
The hand guns are considered for self-defense purposes. If the police wants to go on the offense, the sub-machine guns appear.
The dutch government has recently decided to buy a special version of the Sig P250 for its police departments. They also decided on a special police cartridge with 95 or 98 grains
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Last time we were in Manchester Airport, UK. The Police patrolled in two's, both carried Glock17s, and a Steyr AUG, on a sling.
At one time I sold AUG's in Canada to Police Forces, did not catch on, I wanted one in every Squad Car! Not!
The Austrian Police had an AUG in a door cavity, I think covered by a type of curtain? Why our Police do not carry AUG 16" at 27" overall length I have no idea! They are now made here! I just bought 4X30Rd AUG Magazines, bought two, got two free ($57.00) including shipping, they are hurting?
When you buy an AUG, normally flat top, then you but a scope on it, an other $500.00? That will be expensive, in the Factory in the Town of Steyr, Austria, they dropped a loaded rifle onto a concrete floor, on the scope (built in 1.5 fixed)
Still shot to point of aim! We would say Cop proof? Shoot both eyes open.
Remington 870 anyone?
By the way, the light gathering of that little Swarski Scope was incredible.
Looking at a tree, outside, at dusk, individual branches were hard to see, look through the scope, detail sprang into view, (dismantled Rifle, no barrel!) for safety purposes.
At one time I sold AUG's in Canada to Police Forces, did not catch on, I wanted one in every Squad Car! Not!
The Austrian Police had an AUG in a door cavity, I think covered by a type of curtain? Why our Police do not carry AUG 16" at 27" overall length I have no idea! They are now made here! I just bought 4X30Rd AUG Magazines, bought two, got two free ($57.00) including shipping, they are hurting?
When you buy an AUG, normally flat top, then you but a scope on it, an other $500.00? That will be expensive, in the Factory in the Town of Steyr, Austria, they dropped a loaded rifle onto a concrete floor, on the scope (built in 1.5 fixed)
Still shot to point of aim! We would say Cop proof? Shoot both eyes open.
Remington 870 anyone?
By the way, the light gathering of that little Swarski Scope was incredible.
Looking at a tree, outside, at dusk, individual branches were hard to see, look through the scope, detail sprang into view, (dismantled Rifle, no barrel!) for safety purposes.
When we were in the U.K. in August, all the armed police I saw carried both a pistol and a submachine gun, which was carried slung across the chest. I think they were probably MP5s. In spite of the troubles in London just before we arrived, we did not see any more police than I would see walking around Washington, DC, where you do not see any carrying submachine guns. The White House police (or uniformed Secret Service) have submachine guns (again probably MP5s) but are discreet about allowing them to be seen. I think maybe one-third of the policemen on foot were armed but I don't recall seeing policement (on foot) anywhere else. I even went in the police station in Banbury to ask directions. Nice enough people.
simonrichter
New member
I can only talk about the Austrian Police: They carry a Glock 17 (what else), and I'm pretty sure they use ordinary 9mm FMJ ammunition. The criminal investigation officers use the G 19 as long as they don't stick with an individual weapon anyway.
In general, I guess it's safe to say that 9mm is the most common LEO caliber all over europe. Checking airport security and municipial police officers all around Europe, it was definitely 9mm in all cases were I was able to tell what they had on their belt.
In general, I guess it's safe to say that 9mm is the most common LEO caliber all over europe. Checking airport security and municipial police officers all around Europe, it was definitely 9mm in all cases were I was able to tell what they had on their belt.
What was that about the unsmiling group?
. Would like to hear about it!. As said, it's safe to say we mostly use 9 mm with a few .38 special exceptions. As for type of ammo, there's a mix between FMJ, JHP and semijacketed flat nose. I do know the Brits use JHP, but they've had their bit of controversy over their use.
Met a Police Officer in Port Said, Egypt, in 1965. I could not believe what he had in his Holster (He was getting upset with my Taxi driver!
I approached with a smile, asked him if he spoke English, he said yes, and flipped his hand at my driver in a dismissive gesture!
We talked a little, and I asked him was that a Sig 210 in his holster? He smiled and said yes, my next question, issued? "No, I came across it in the course of a raid" I did not gain any more info; did not pursue that line of questioning. His English was impeccable, he said "Have a safe visit, Scouse!"
I could have fell over. No idea how he knew a Liverpool UK accent.
For those who do not know this model of Sig, the most accurate 9mm made, even now. IMHO.
I approached with a smile, asked him if he spoke English, he said yes, and flipped his hand at my driver in a dismissive gesture!
We talked a little, and I asked him was that a Sig 210 in his holster? He smiled and said yes, my next question, issued? "No, I came across it in the course of a raid" I did not gain any more info; did not pursue that line of questioning. His English was impeccable, he said "Have a safe visit, Scouse!"
I could have fell over. No idea how he knew a Liverpool UK accent.
For those who do not know this model of Sig, the most accurate 9mm made, even now. IMHO.