Police Cartridges in europe
- Thread starter Cossack
- Start date
Walklightly
Moderator
I thought they mostly used .380acp (Short 9mm) in like 85g to 105g.
Mike Irwin
Staff
More European police forces are going away from the little cartridges in to 9mm or larger.
French National Police used to carry .32 ACP handguns, but ditched those in the early 1980s as terrorism became more of an issue.
British AFOs (Authorized Firearms Officers) generally carry Sigs or Glocks, IIRC.
German national police have been carrying various flavors of 9mm for many years.
French National Police used to carry .32 ACP handguns, but ditched those in the early 1980s as terrorism became more of an issue.
British AFOs (Authorized Firearms Officers) generally carry Sigs or Glocks, IIRC.
German national police have been carrying various flavors of 9mm for many years.
peacefulgary
New member
I would be very surprised if any European LE agency still carries the .380.
Cheapshooter
New member
I once read that the police sidearm in Europe was more of a symbol of authority than a tactical weapon. Hence the use of smaller caliber guns like 32, 380, and 9MM Mak. I'm sure in today's world all that has changed!
Mike Irwin
Staff
That concept really started to change with the Red Brigade and other communist/terrorist groups in the 1970s.
When I was in Europe in the early 1980s it appeared that many of the French National Police in Paris were still carrying small caliber pistols like the MAB, but most of them had a MAT-49 submachine gun or MAS-36 rifle slung over their shoulders.
In the Netherlands at the air port I actually saw uniformed security carrying M1 carbines. They were also carrying handguns, but the holsters were completely flapped and it was impossible to tell exactly what they were carrying.
The tactical officers I saw at Schipol appeared to be carrying MP-5s.
When I was in Europe in the early 1980s it appeared that many of the French National Police in Paris were still carrying small caliber pistols like the MAB, but most of them had a MAT-49 submachine gun or MAS-36 rifle slung over their shoulders.
In the Netherlands at the air port I actually saw uniformed security carrying M1 carbines. They were also carrying handguns, but the holsters were completely flapped and it was impossible to tell exactly what they were carrying.
The tactical officers I saw at Schipol appeared to be carrying MP-5s.
Jim Watson
New member
Germany went from .32 to 9mm P in the 1970s in the face of the Baader-Meinhof Gang and Red Army Faction; after a brief dalliance with the 9mm Police.
I once read about the Dutch police buying Walther P5 9mms.
I once read about the Dutch police buying Walther P5 9mms.
Fishing_Cabin
New member
When I was last in Russia about 5-6 years ago, and the few trips there before that, from what I saw most of the police were unarmed, or at least were not carrying anything openly. There were a few police officers carrying what I would venture to be a version of the Mak in a flapped holster.
The one time I was stopped and my passport checked walking down the sidewalk, the 2 officers were armed, both with pistols, and one with some version of an underfolder ak. Both of the officers were polite, and business like. It was not totally uncommon to see some of the officers around Red Square, etc, carrying a pistol, and sometimes an underfolder ak. Some of the security gaurds carried what seemed to be a copy of a sig, in what looked to be probably 9x19.
The one time I was stopped and my passport checked walking down the sidewalk, the 2 officers were armed, both with pistols, and one with some version of an underfolder ak. Both of the officers were polite, and business like. It was not totally uncommon to see some of the officers around Red Square, etc, carrying a pistol, and sometimes an underfolder ak. Some of the security gaurds carried what seemed to be a copy of a sig, in what looked to be probably 9x19.
Mark In Texas
New member
I was in Belgium prior to 9/11 and noticed that the (very good looking) female passport control officer carried a 9MM (looked like a CZ but maybe something else). What was surprising to me is that she had it cocked and locked, with a retention strap between the hammer and firing pin. It was a full size 9mm, whatever it was.
We use 9mm in most cases. At least in the countries I am aware of, which are Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, UK, Austria, Finland and the Scandinavian countries.
The type of round differs. In my country, stupidly enough, JHP are not allowed for the two national-level agencies, and we either use FMJ or semi jacketed flat noses. Local police forces, stupidly enough, again, can use JHP. They are usually 115 or 124 gr.
The type of round differs. In my country, stupidly enough, JHP are not allowed for the two national-level agencies, and we either use FMJ or semi jacketed flat noses. Local police forces, stupidly enough, again, can use JHP. They are usually 115 or 124 gr.
secret_agent_man
Moderator
I've read where the 357 MAGNUM revolver is favored in Europe where police need enhanced handgun accuracy. I read about this on the internet once, but never having stayed at the Holiday Inn Express, I can not vouch for it.
True. At least in France and over here, those .357 are used for some applications by some highly-specialized units as the above mentioned GIGN or our UEI. It's not their regular sidearm, though. Those are usually Sig-Sauers or Glocks.
What you saw in Russia, those unarmed "police" officers are actually... conscripts. They have this military-like system in which those kids (which is what they actually are) do their mandatory military service in the Police (or "militia" as they used to call it, not any more). They patrol in small groups, supervised by a professional police officer, who will be armed.
When I was there, it struck me the fact that the man who was controlling traffic in a junction close to my hotel was... a Captain. If they use Captains for that, I wonder who commands the Station... must be a General, at least.
Talked with local cops in and around Madrid Spain couple months ago and they said most cops in the capital are going to 9mm, (didn't say what model). I did see alot of revolvers in smaller city cops holsters, mostly SW and Rugers in .38 and some (I think) .357, also Beretta and Ruger semi autos looked like.
You probably talked to the local police guys ("Policía Municipal de Madrid"). They used to have .38 revolvers years ago, and still some municipalities in the province of Madrid, or some smallers cities, have them, but as they told you, everyone is moving on to the 9mm semiautos. Had you talked to the National Police-CNP (Cuerpo Nacional de Policía) guys, they would've told you they have always used the 9mm. The older platform was the Star 28PK in 9mm, now they are transitioning to the HK USP Compact. The Guardia Civil force, deployed in the countryside, territorial waters and other places, used the Star BM and 30M, now has transitioned to the Beretta 92FS. No .357 revolvers were used unless by those specialized units
. Italy uses their national, so the 92FS is the standard. France and their Gendarmerie Nationale had their 92G, but moved on to Sig-Sauer.
The only police force in the UK that all officers carry firearms is the Police Service of Northern Ireland. They carry glock 9mm pistols 9mm h&k mp5-s and 5.56 mm h&k rifles. The police in England do not routinely carry firearms they have armed response units that carry 9mm glocks.
Been to France and Germany....
The French officers had pistols in flapped holsters so I could not tell what they were. In Germany, most I saw had HK P7's - and sometimes a complimenting sub-gun slung over their shoulder (or you would see a pair of officers where one would have a pistol and the other a sub). In most airports and major public areas (like the Eiffel Tower), the security (could not tell if they were special police or soldiers) carried full-size assault rifles.
J
The French officers had pistols in flapped holsters so I could not tell what they were. In Germany, most I saw had HK P7's - and sometimes a complimenting sub-gun slung over their shoulder (or you would see a pair of officers where one would have a pistol and the other a sub). In most airports and major public areas (like the Eiffel Tower), the security (could not tell if they were special police or soldiers) carried full-size assault rifles.
J