pocket pistol vs. broad side of a barn

Hello there.. I just got my hands on a colt pony pocketlite in .380. Took it to the range the other day and it's definitely a short range weapon. I tried shooting a group from a "benchrest" type position (basically sitting down and supporting my arms on the padded table in front of me. I got a 3 inch group at 7 yards. I didn't try 15 yards, and the auto range target doesn't stop at ten yards. After some practice, I could hit a man sized target at 15 yards, but beyond that forget it. The pony is DAO, so that adds to the innaccuracy.

With a little more practice, I think I can shoot IPSC with it... ;)

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I think most service-size quality handguns can group five rounds in 3" at 25 yards, with ammo they like and a good shooter (and maybe), some much better. I've got groups near these with acouple of S&W 2" revolvers, a Walther PPK 380, and lately with a very cheap Bersa Thunder 22LR. Sometimes you can even get good groups (under 10") at 100 yards. It's difficult to shoot small guns to their full potential due to grip size.
 
in refference to your topic. very few true pocket pistols have sights or may i should say decent sights. they are not designed for target shooting and group size is not a very good test of your ability to defend with one.
as vs. the broad side of a barn, that depends on how close that barn is. i had an old derringer in .38 that you could not hit a barn with at anything over 25 yards. but a true belly gun distance (read 10 feet) it was a real threat. i have a .45 Colt derringer that i shoot by aligning the barrel with the target ala Cirrilo and using that technique i will hit a man's torso size target pretty much center every time out to 21 feet. i don't shoot it much beyond that because it was not designed for distance.
think of a pocket pistol as a tool for use at arms length or a little beyond. learn to draw it from deep concealment and hit the vitals of a man size target everytime. if you can do that it does not matter if the group is .25 inch or 10 inches.

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My new P32 hit 24 of 25 (offhand, standing) in a 3" bull @ 7 yds this weekend, which is about the greatest distance I would consider this little thing to be even moderately effective. I consider that group probably to be near my upper limit with the P32's sights, but it was better than I expected from both me and the P32.
 
I shoot an FEG APK--a Hungarian near-clone of a PPK in .380. Been shooting it regularly for 2 years.

From a bench rest, it will do 4" groups at 25 yards.

Standing, offhand, it will do 4" groups at 15 yards.

Standing, offhand, it will do 2" groups at 7 yards (not quite one ragged hole).

I really like this pistol.
 
I'm experienced enough to know I'm not that good. Maybe a 6 on a scale of 1-10.

.38 S&W 2" snubby, shot off-hand, double action at 7 yds will yield *honest* 5 shot, 8 inch groups (Yes, boys, you count that flyer!).

The way I look at it, these aren't target pistols by any stretch. Why evaluate group size the same way? Evaluate accuracy in the way in which you will actually use the gun.
 
What a nice opportunity to reminisce about guns gone by . . . .

I've had a NAA mini .22lr that would do about 10" groups at 30 feet.
My Jennings J-22 used to do 3-5" groups at that distance. (My Ruger Mark II would make one very small hole with the same ammo.)
My Jennings J-25 used to make c. 8" groups at 10 yds.
My Intratec Pro-Tec .25 (the CZ 45, I believe) was about 10" at the same distance.
My Beretta 950 BS in .25 will grudgingly turn in 6-8" groups, depending on ammo, at 10 yds.
My Walther 4 would make 3" groups at same distance.
My Mauser HSc would do one-hole to 2" groups all day, with any ammo, despite its hideously corroded bbl (NEVER trade away a gun that works so well!).
My 2" bbl S&W 60 (a police gun marked NY-1)would do 2" at best at 10 yds. My 4" bbl S&W 13 would make one hole with the same ammo.
My East German Makarov would do one ragged hole, all day, at 10 yds. I've got an old target here from it where the five rounds, center to center, went into under 1/2 an inch.
My Glock 33 will put 10 rounds into a single hole at 10 yds.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but that was a fun stroll down memory lane. Oh, and to answer the "skill level" portion of the question: I'll soon be 34, I've been shooting since I was about 19, and I was on the college rifle and pistol teams. I don't shoot nearly enough now (maybe once a month).
 
With a NAA .22 mini I can hit an 8" plate at 50 yds. (probably can't do it now, need practice).

With my P32 I can easily do a sub 8" group at 25 ds.

My ex- Colt mustang would do under 6" at 25 yds.

My Ruger 22/45 will do better than I can shoot, but can shoot a plate at 100 yds seated.

With my Ruger P944 I can get less than 3" groups at 25 yds. Apparently it is an oddity because I have heard some bad reports on the P94. It's accurate with me.

I do think I shoot little guns better than most, but it is mostly mental. You have to get past the fact that you aren't supposed to be able to shoot small guns well. Same thing for any pistol at 100yds. It takes concentration, but can be done well.

[This message has been edited by Bdog5150 (edited July 26, 2000).]
 
"Much past 25 yards and you're out of range with most any handgun -- save a 44 Mag or similar."
No - thats just poor shooting... a pistol is very deadly inside 100 yards if you do your job right.
 
The best long range group I ever saw (I was not the shooter) was a 5 shot 3" group at 100 yards with an S&W 6" .357 Model 27. Iron sights. I don't know the load. And not a fluke; the shooter's other groups were almost as good.

At 10 yards, I can shoot into 2 inches with a 3" barrel S&W Chiefs Special, shooting DA, off hand. From a rest, groups are one ragged hole. A Walther PP .32 does a little better. The Colt Model 1903 is not as accurate. The FEG PA63 is pretty good, but not as accurate as the Walther. The PPK/S in .380 is about like the PA63, not as good as the Walther .32.

With the Chiefs, I can keep all shots on the 3'x3' target board at 100 yards, from a rest and holding over by the height of the front sight. That is, keeping the rear notch at the front sight base.

I have been shooting both snubbies and normal size for a week or two. Basically, many snubbies will shoot well if one practices with them. As will be evident from the above, I do not feel a person is safe at 100 yards or more if being shot at with any handgun by a person who knows how to use it.

Jim
 
I don't shoot my pocket pistols much past 7 yds. My choices are the 1908 Colt in .32, Colt Govt. pocketlite in .380, and a Daewoo .380. All are capable of sub 2" groups at that range if you do your job and take your time, but as riddleofsteele said they are designed for close range work-literaly at arms length range, so sights are of no real importance in my opinion. Reliabilty means more to me then accuracy in these pistols and any one of these meet that requirement.
 
Umm...well, i never knew about yardage and such but can tell you what I've done in real-life and not on the range. :)

Had a double shot .22 derringer and could constantly hit a mediumsized turtle at perhaps 30yards on the pond.

My Llama 22 especial [Geez I'd like another one of them!]] I could one shot-one kill a fair to middlin sized cat on the ground or on a fence post at perhaps 10yds or so drawing from an Uncle Mikes belt holster..
[[hey, had 40 of them on the ranch when I moved in and just didn't need that many.]]

Had a Buffalo Arms .357 derringer...could plink soda cans at 20 feet with one out of three miss'.

Got my Makarov and am hoping to see how it does pretty soon. :)

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Distance work should be done! To quote Dirty Harry, "...Man's gotta know his limitations".

When you can keep every round on a 9" plate at 50 yards with a snub you understand the gun.

If you don't understand the gun, why aren't you at the range? What if you are injured, in pain and can barely see? What if you are so scared that half an hour later a coworker tells you your face is patchy - either grey or flushed?

The better your maximum scores are in good conditions, the more likely your minimum scores when all hell breaks loose will suffice.
 
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