Pocket pistol options: 380, 9mm, 40

C

CDW4ME

New member
Four pocket pistol options: LCP 380, Kahr PM9, Glock 43, Kahr PM40
6 + 1 in 380 and 9mm, 5 + 1 for the 40

LCP:
95 gr. Ranger T - 889 fps / 167# KE

Kahr PM9:
Speer Gold Dot 115 @ 1,092 fps / 305# KE
Federal HST 124 +P @ 1,120 fps / 345# KE / PF139

Glock 43:
Speer Gold Dot 115 @ 1,100 / 309# KE
Federal HST 124 +P @ 1,135 fps / 355# KE

PM40:
180 gr. Speer Gold Dot @ 950 fps / 361# KE
155 gr. Federal Bonded @ 1,086 fps / 406# KE / PF 168

Subjectively, the Glock 43 kicks the least, followed by the PM9; the LCP 380 and 40 kick more than either 9mm IMO.
Yea, the 380 is lightest & smallest, but ballistics are paltry compared to 9mm & 40 with comparatively excessive recoil for the power.
According to Lucky Gunner tests, 9mm & 40 bullets I cited expand after heavy clothing shot from a short barrel, 380 nope - slim picking for what will.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

For me, either 9mm or 40 in pocket serves as an option that I can put my hand on without revealing I'm armed, an option to a larger concealed pistol on belt.
(Handy if you see someone "shady" approaching you in a parking lot and they keep coming even with visual and verbal "no".)

Pictured for size reference:
PM40 and LCP
PM9 and 38 snub
 

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I would be very hesitant to rely on a .380 Auto pistol for self-defense unless ultra-compact size was an absolute necessity.

On the other hand, although I favor .40 S&W in mid-size pistols, I prefer 9mm Luger in compact pistols due to their lessor ability to cushion recoil, and magazine capacity limitations.

I like the Kahr trigger. I believe the longer trigger pull affords an element of safety over that of the Glock.

So my choice would be the Kahr PM9.
 
Bill DeShivs There is no way I would put a Glock 43 in my pocket- even if it would fit.
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Don't like Glock?

pblanc I would be very hesitant to rely on a .380 Auto pistol for self-defense unless ultra-compact size was an absolute necessity.
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Agree. A 380 is better than nothing, which is not the criteria I wish to bet my life on.

Glock 43 trigger is fine, I like the PM9 too.
 
A .380 with you is better than a 9mm left at home. Learn to be effective with a pocket .380 because you are much more likely to have it with you due to it's low size and weight.

pblanc, I agree with you on preferring .40 in a mid size or larger pistol and 9mm in a compact pistol. I've shot .40 in the Glock 22 and found it snappy, but in the Glock 35, which has a .8 inch longer barrel and a bit longer slide, it was comfortable. I can't imagine shooting .40 in a handgun smaller than a Glock 22.
 
KelTec PF-9 replaced my KT 380 as my pocket pistol.

I still have other 380's I carry Like my Colt Mustangs , PPK/s Bersa Thunder ,
I don't have a real problem with the 380 .Been around a long time and had its ups and downs Like many calibers .
 
Kahr CM-40 in DeSantis pocket holster on me now. I sometimes go with CT380 when I have to. I have other Kahr pistols as well and other than 2 FTE's out of my CT-380 at the 50 round mark I have never had an issue. My CT-380 that had the FTE's is now over 300 rounds and no further FTE's after those first 2. I'm OK with the CM-40 I really don't perceive anymore kick or recoil than a PM/CM-9
 
Out of your options, I'd go with the Kahr PM9 or the Glock. I'd much prefer 9mm over .380. I definitely wouldn't want to shoot .40S&W in something that small. So, for a pocket sized gun I'd go 9mm (and did- I have a LCP but also a Pf-9 and a SIG P290). With a little more weight, I'd consider a .40, maybe in the heavier all-metal MK40, definitely in the larger all-metal K40. For a small, pocketable 9mm, I think the PM9 is the gold standard by which everything else should be judged. A buddy used to have one, it wasn't too uncomfortable to shoot, it was quite small, it was accurate, and it was reliable. What more could you want?
 
I'm not a Glock fan- but they are holster guns, not pocket guns. The trigger design necessitates a very rigid holster.
A .380 will do anything a larger (or smaller) caliber will do-as long as you can shoot.
 
I have a LC9 and it is a great compact carry pistol. It also has a heavy trigger pull plus a safety so it is very safe to carry. However I always use an inside the belt holster and never carried it in my pocket. 9mm ammo is readily available, low cost, and very effective in the personal protection role.
 
Glock 43 all the way.

Anything kahr I run from. Jamtastic junk.

Look at the bearing and lock up surfaces of a glock 43 compared to a kahr; many of which suffer peening. Some say the 43 is over built, I will take it and the reliability any day over kahr and a few others that are problem prone.

I don't sweat a 43 in the pocket in an appropriate holster. Have come full circle, used to have a 380 seecamp as daily pocket gun; had many a stress dream about pulling on that things trigger waiting for a bang...
 
TruthTellers A .380 with you is better than a 9mm left at home. Learn to be effective with a pocket .380 because you are much more likely to have it with you due to it's low size and weight
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Two assumptions, that are incorrect.

After 20+ years of concealed carry, I'm not carrying a 380 over a 9mm because of a slight difference in size; I dress around the gun(s).

"Learn to be effective", implies I'm not.
Given equal practice, most people would shoot the PM9/Glock 43 better due to better sights, plus quicker follow up shots.

Bill DeShivs I'm not a Glock fan- but they are holster guns, not pocket guns. The trigger design necessitates a very rigid holster.
A .380 will do anything a larger (or smaller) caliber will do-as long as you can shoot.
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I wouldn't carry any of them in my pocket without a holster. :eek:
I have holsters for all, pictured is the Glock 43 and PM9.

"Do anything"...
Make a hole, yes.
Expand and penetrate 12-18'', not a likely 380 ammo combo from short barrel LCP.
A .36'' hole penetrating 15'' not likely to stop attacker as quickly as a .60'' hole.

Remember the psycho that stabbed people 10 people in the mall:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/07/us/minnesota-stabbing-surveillance-video/

The off duty cop that shot him was a firearms instructor and shooting competitor, he used a Glock 19, shot 10 rounds hit 6/10.
It took 6 rounds 9mm to stop one psycho with a knife.
https://www.policeone.com/terrorism/articles/230490006-10-police-training-takeaways-from-the-St-Cloud-mall-attack/

If that ^ "effective" shooter had been carrying a pocket 380 (or 9mm) he would have run out of ammo before stopping the threat.
Attacker gets back up twice after being hit with 9mm, I would not bet my life on lesser caliber.
 

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First I will say I rarely sell a firearm and only slightly more often will trade one. I bought a G 43 (love my G 42) and after about two hundred rounds rounds through it I determined this was not a pistol to my liking. The pistol did not feel good in my hand and had sharp recoil very unlike my Sig P 938 (which is a dream to shoot) and was just not very accurate. A friend offered me a Sig P 238 and a dozen mags and although that made P 238 number three in the safe, the trade was made.
I have since talked to several others about the G 43 and it was a love/ hate response so i would suggest before buying, one should shoot this pistol and make their own determination.
 
Pocket pistol options (in a semi-auto), for me pretty well consist of a KelTec P3AT or a Kahr CM9. Both are very easily concealed and quite comfortable to carry in a DeSantis Super Fly holster in my right front pocket. Sometimes I might also carry the CM9 in a DeSantis SOF-TUCK IWB holster with the P3AT in the pocket.

 
If I want a pocket carry pistol I am going with a .380, thats what they are designed for and nothing is going to pocket carry as well. If I am going 9mm or larger, which is what I do with my Kahr CM9 and S&W 642 I am going IWB. Can they pocket carry? Yep, but not as comfortably for me as say a LCP or Bodyguard.
As for a .380acp not being up to the task as a defensive round? Its not the stopping power of the caliber that concerns me its the accuracy of a pocket carry .380 at more than 10 yards or so or under stress that could be problematic in a situation like the mall example you posted.
 
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Just because a gun fits in a pocket... Does not make it a good pocket carry pistol.

How easy it is to draw from the pocket is important. Smaller pistols are better for this.

380 with proper bullet selection is fine... I see a lot of people in this thread under the 40 is better than 9 delusion, and that is coloring their perception.

The key is finding a good performing 380, and there are not a large selection of proven performers.


Dressing around your carry choice is good most of the time, but sometimes you are forced into certain clothing choices. I have a small pistol for that use, the rest of the time I have a Shield or M&Pc for carry duty, and a M&P FS for winter.
 
As I said in another thread-
NO handgun can be relied upon to immediately physically incapacitate unless there is a central nervous system shot. A .380 CNS works as well as a .45.
 
NO handgun can be relied upon to immediately physically incapacitate unless there is a central nervous system shot. A .380 CNS works as well as a .45.
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I don't agree.

Using data to support my comments:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

If I select one of the best performing 380 loads, Sig V Crown 12.8'' / .51
Compared to a good 45 (not thread topic, your reference) HST 14'' / .85

The hole made by the larger bullet is likely to incapacitate quicker.
Nobody can rely on making a CNS hit.
I'll try to stack the odds in my favor, by going with more not less.
 
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