Plinker time! Model 10 or model 15?
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Jim Watson
New member
I would go with the 15 or 19 just to get sights I can see not even considering adjustments.
I was looking at a 10 with a gunsmithing project for high profile fixed sights, but unless I could get my gunsmith interested in it as a research project, it would cost more than the difference in models.
I was looking at a 10 with a gunsmithing project for high profile fixed sights, but unless I could get my gunsmith interested in it as a research project, it would cost more than the difference in models.
Assuming, of course, that the Model 10 "sights" are properly regulated from the factory in terms of poa to poi. Because if they're not (and I've had more than a couple of handguns with fixed sights from great companies that weren't) your choices are limited in terms of a fix. If the gun is shooting high (and I have a Colt Cobra that shoots at least a foot high @ 25 yards), you'll either have to add metal to the front sight; change it for a higher one (assuming it sits in a dovetail or is "pinned" on) or try different bullet weights and hope the poi changes significantly enough to conform to the poa.
It's a little easier if a gun with fixed sights is shooting low. Judicious use of a file on the front sight generally will cure the problem.
Windage adjustment on a gun with fixed sights poses the biggest problem. If possible, a careful bending of the front sight might bring the sights in conformance with the poa. Otherwise, a trip to the gunsmith is probably in order to torque the barrel from a vise in one direction or the other-and this will be trial and error at best. Changing bullet weights will usually have little affect on windage corrections.
As a last resort, I suppose a shooter could employ "Kentucky Windage" when making a shot. Good luck on that option if you have to use the method on different guns and to remember which gun to "hold off" on and which one to "hold on" to.
I prefer adjustable sights on most of my handguns. I often shoot different cartridge/bullet configurations and combinations, sometimes at different distances, that generally changes the poi and I like being able to change the sights with a screwdriver to bring the sights in tune with where the bullets are printing.
Adjustable sights are almost always easier to see in terms of aiming and getting a good sight picture than are fixed sights.
I think way too much has been made over the supposed fragility of adjustables. I carried a revolver having adjustable sights for much of my thirty year le career and only once, during a roll on the ground resisting arrest scuffle, did an adjustable sight on my revolver ever break. And that break was to the "ear" of the blade and would have made no difference in any event if I had to use the gun at that point-blank range.
Handguns with fixed sights certainly have a place in any ccw role where the gun has to be drawn from "deep cover" or even from a pocket; areas where an adjustable sight might snag during the draw when time is of the essence in terms of surviving an armed confrontation.
So for me at least, the choice is a "no-brainer": the Model 15, especially if the prices of the two revolvers are close to being the same. And for those that don't like the original grips on this K-frame variant, it's easy enough to get an after-market set that are better to your liking.
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On fixed vs adjustable sights -
I've simply never seen any fixed sight revolvers (Smith & Wesson only, I've never messed with others) that didn't fire just fine where the sights were from the factory.
On adjusting - Once sighted in, doing the required adjusting and testing etc., I've never touched my adjustable sights for different ammo or distance.
With either kind of sights, I simply know what "With this ammo it shoots high" so I compensate with the sight picture and so forth.
Do you guys really go adjusting and readjusting the sights every time you change ammo or distance? It's fine with me if you do, but I just don't imagine a lot of people doing tht.
Sgt Lumpy
I've simply never seen any fixed sight revolvers (Smith & Wesson only, I've never messed with others) that didn't fire just fine where the sights were from the factory.
On adjusting - Once sighted in, doing the required adjusting and testing etc., I've never touched my adjustable sights for different ammo or distance.
With either kind of sights, I simply know what "With this ammo it shoots high" so I compensate with the sight picture and so forth.
Do you guys really go adjusting and readjusting the sights every time you change ammo or distance? It's fine with me if you do, but I just don't imagine a lot of people doing tht.
Sgt Lumpy
SgtLumpy said:
I'm a fan of adjustable sights for sporting use (I'd opt for the 15 over the 10, then), since, IMO, they offer a better sight picture than fixed sights. While I don't generally mess with them, I will adjust them when shooting a formal bullseye-type target for score, rather than just group size. When score matters, a beautiful group just outside the 10-ring is aggravating and preventable.
Exhibit A
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Otherwise known as "Kentucky Windage". And I have to ask, do you really do this "every time you change ammo or distance" and with different guns and being able to remember which one shoots where and with what? I know that some people do and, like you, it's fine with me. But, to answer your question, whenever the change of ammunition and/or distance results in a significant change in the poi, yep, out comes the screwdriver.
I will confess that there are a few situations when I don't resort to fiddling with the sights. One example that comes to mind is competing in Bullseye matches at Camp Perry, where the slow-fire stage is fired at a different distance (50 yards) than are the Timed and Rapid Fire stages (25 yards). In this instance, I have enough to do without worrying about changing my sights (possibly even turning them the wrong way in the heat of the moment
). What I do (and I'm probably in the minority here) is to use a 6:00 o'clock hold @ the 25 yard range and a middle of the bullseye hold @ the 50 yard range. A modified Kentucky Windage solution to changing the poa to accomodate a change in distance poi if you will.bamaranger
New member
M15
I'd get the adjustable sighted M15. There is not iron clad promise that the M10 will shoot to point of aim, or to same point of aim w/ different bullet weights for certain.
I always thought the 15 was easier to shoot due to its more visible adj. sights as well. The M10 sights can be hard to see in certain conditions, for me anyhow.
I'd get the adjustable sighted M15. There is not iron clad promise that the M10 will shoot to point of aim, or to same point of aim w/ different bullet weights for certain.
I always thought the 15 was easier to shoot due to its more visible adj. sights as well. The M10 sights can be hard to see in certain conditions, for me anyhow.
I have some fixed sight revolvers, including Model 10s. Like MrBorland, I prefer the adjustable sights for range work because they are more precise. I don't normally adjust them but can still shoot smaller groups than with fixed sight revolvers. BTW, the same is true for target sights on semi-autos vs. fixed or "combat" style sights.
SgtLumpy practices a lot. My guns may not shoot POA either. But I know where they shoot. POA moves every time the temp/wind/humidity/cartridge load changes. Probably lots of other factors. Worst case, it takes me one shot to know I'm an inch high or right or whatever.
No problem with people using whatever sights they like. I just don't care to adjust them every time that POA factor changes. And in anything but a mid ride or lower duty holster, the adjustable sight wants to snag my arm and clothing.
As long as the bullet makes a hole where you want it, that's all that counts.
Sgt Lumpy
newfrontier45
Moderator
I have way too many guns to try to remember a different point of impact for each one. No sir, my guns have to shoot to the sights or they are useless.
Adjustability is not the only reason for adjustable sights. The sight picture is usually vastly superior to any fixed sight arrangement with rare exception. Old Model Single Sixes being one.
Adjustability is not the only reason for adjustable sights. The sight picture is usually vastly superior to any fixed sight arrangement with rare exception. Old Model Single Sixes being one.
I definitely gravitate toward adjustable sights for all the reasons already mentioned, but I won't avoid a fun gun or a fine deal because of fixed sights. And no, I can't remember "which gun shoots where" but since I don't do any hunting, and I don't employ any of these for defense, and I don't use any of them for competition... it sure doesn't take a whole lot to send a couple down range, see what's happening and adjust my sight picture to send them where I want.
I suppose each situation is different, but kind of sounds like "mountains out of mole hills" a little bit.
I think I like this solution the best:
I suppose each situation is different, but kind of sounds like "mountains out of mole hills" a little bit.
I think I like this solution the best:
Ha ha, no argument there.
I own both...a 1957 "Pre-model 10" tapered 4" barrel M&P, and a Model 15-3.
Love them both. For whatever reason, the Model 15 trigger is slightly smoother.
I do prefer the adjustable sight, mainly due to the big, square sight picture...I don't think I have adjusted since the first time I shot it.
If I was selling off guns, I would keep the Model 15.
My experience with fixed sight revolvers from S&W has been great. My Model 10 and my Model 38 Bodyguard snub have both shot to POA. My Ruger experience has not been as good. I owned a 3" SP101 357 mag and a Vaquero Bisley 44mag...both shot left and low. The SP101 was very accurate for me, but I did not like holding off.
Love them both. For whatever reason, the Model 15 trigger is slightly smoother.
I do prefer the adjustable sight, mainly due to the big, square sight picture...I don't think I have adjusted since the first time I shot it.
If I was selling off guns, I would keep the Model 15.
My experience with fixed sight revolvers from S&W has been great. My Model 10 and my Model 38 Bodyguard snub have both shot to POA. My Ruger experience has not been as good. I owned a 3" SP101 357 mag and a Vaquero Bisley 44mag...both shot left and low. The SP101 was very accurate for me, but I did not like holding off.
I could never shoot well enough to tell if a gun was shooting to point of aim, or if I just plain missed. "The sights are off" was always a convient excuse.
Even when I did get a gun "sighted in" I never seemed to find a target exactly that far away again. Darn things were always a little farther or a little closer. I still had to use "Kentucky windage."
"The sights are off" was always a convient excuse. Even when I did get a gun "sighted in" I never seemed to find a target exactly that far away again. Darn things were always a little farther or a little closer. I still had to use "Kentucky windage."