Please weigh in--do you trust these clones with your life?

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Gwinnydapooh

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I'm looking for a handgun (I know, all of you know that--I post about it constantly and annoyingly.) :)

Do you trust these clones enough to keep one in your bedroom quick-access safe for those special evenings? I can't carry, so carry is academic, but the gun must be capable of reliability, reasonable accuracy at 15 yards or less (mostly less) and have/accept night sights:

Llama full size 1911 clone?

FEG HP clone?

Arcus 94 HP clone? (and how do these HP's compare to each other?)

Norinco 1911 clone?

Astra SIG clone? (Astra 100, I think.)

Thanks!

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Depends--how much is your life worth? What would be the per annum cost over your expected life span for a Glock, a SIG, or a S&W revolver; all of which will perform reliably indefinitely? Or, looking at it aesthetically--life is too short to own junk.

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My life is worth what I have to spend to make sure it is protected. My question is, is it necessary to spend more and get a more expensive handgun than these in order to protect it?
Put another way, if only a $500 gun will protect me reliably, then my life is worth $500.
But if a $200 gun will protect me reliably, then I have $300 to spend on other things--ammo, safe, hard case, supplies, etc.
If, on the other hand, the $200 gun will not protect me reliably, then I must spend more. If I place a preset value on my life and go buy the gun that costs that much, however, I'm setting myself up to spend all my money on a gun! A 1,500 Wilson would be perfectly reasonable by that logic. . . .

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
I don't trust any clowns beside Krusty the Klown. Certainly not that bozo, Bozo.

Oh. CLONES. Sorry.

I like major brands, personally, but there are some good clones (do you consider the CZ a clone of the HP?...it's very good). How about looking for a good deal on a slightly used major brand? That's what I'd do.
 
How about the Colt 1991A1? Somebody on another thread posted a site that had them for about $370 in the plain-jane blue, fixed sights, no-frills version. This is really not that bad and lower than I thought a decent 1911 would go--but are Colts still decent 1911s? So many choices.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Springfield and Kimber are clones too - which I own. So, yes, I do.

Norinco - I wouldn't touch.
The others you mention, I really dont care for - so have never really taken a look at.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
I have a cousin who has a Llama .380. It looks excactly like the 1911 but scaled down.
In the three times he has fired it in my presence the extractor somewhere down the line flies off.
I have a lot of friends that come to me asking for advice on what firearm they should buy. Most of them are on a budget so I have to pick my answers wisely.
Other than my experience with the Llama I know a gun store owner who is selling the FEG among his other inventories. We got to talking and the feeling I got from him is that it is not a very good gun too.
The cheapest, yet reliable, firearm I have ever recommmended to a friend who was on a budget is the Bersa .380 and he loves it.
After 500 rounds therehas been no problems at all.
My feeling is that you have to balance it out between reliability and cost. Since this is a home defense gun then I would imagine that you will not be taking it out and exposing it to the elements too often.
Although I am no expert, I suggest researching into the CZ as well as the Witness line of firearms.
Hope this helps.

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RONIN - samurai with no masters
 
I'm about to do a search for the Auto Ordinance .45 on this forum, but if anybody has an opinion on that one let me know . . . still a clone, but I've heard the quality is pretty good. Of course, I was also told the quality was acceptable on an Arcus 94 and on the Astra 100.

Thanks for the replies thus far--you've all made excellent points. I may just have to save my pennies or go with a KISS .357 revolver.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
I have a Norinco Model of the 1911 (their name for the pistol) that has fed, fired and ejected everything I have tried to run thru it. (Excepting for some Wilson magazine problems). I replaced the springs with Wolff springs and had the trigger pull cleaned up. My carry pistol. I trust the Norinco.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
If money is that big of concern, I would go with a used S&W 38 or 357, before I would go with those clunkers.
The revolvers, for the most part, always work.
Those clunkers you mentioned, won't.
You really want to risk your life, in the middle of the night, on the cheapest gun you can get?
 
You have said: 1. Self defense is your primary concern, as your reason for having a pistol. 2. You have to watch your budget.

A good, used Model 10 S&W with Plus P ammo is probably as good as you're gonna get, for your purpose and at low cost. Moving up only slightly in cost is a used Model 66.

Good guns & shooting cost money. If these are a priority, one does not become a river-rafting guide, a folk-musician or a perpetual graduate student. A good day-job is highly recommended. :)

As usual, Art
 
I'd like to second the recommendation made earlier for Bersa's superb PPK clones the series 95 and Thunder.

If .380 ACP is enough for you (go with Fed Hydras if it is) the 2 above named weapons offer truly outstanding value AND reliability. The newer Thunder offers drop safety, mag disconnect safety, manual safety and combined de-cocker, they are slim and light, reliable with JHP's, available as a true PPK clone with a short profile 7+1 magazine option (Thunder Lite) or 9+1 full size grip (Thunder DLX). As for price, the chepaest I have found was listed NIB at $189, quite why everyone doesn't own one is a mystery to me, there are very few true bargains out there, but this is certainly one of them.

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Mike H
 
Varies with me. I had an FEG Hi Power which was functionally reliable, but was roughly finished inside. I didn't have confidence in the workmanship.

Still have a IMI Baby Eagle, which is accurate and reliable. This one I would trust for defence.
 
I just bought a Smith & Wesson Model 910
in 9mm Aluminum alloy frame anodized alloy steel slide, stainless steel barrell with chrome bore. Tight barrel to slide lockup, the barrel has a ball flared end and is fitted to the slide bushing.
My local gunshop has it new for $379 with 2ss 10 rnd mags and a case.

Yesterday I shot it at the range 150 rounds without cleaning it. It fired flawlessly and the accuracy was excellent as good or better than the sigs or glocks I have fired.Trigger was excellent in double or single action.
SAfet allows for auto decocking when a round is chambered. 3 safety's hammer safety deccocker, manual safety, magazine safety, and firing pin plunger safety. I hit the x in the center of the 50yd rifle target I use at 10 yards on my first two shots.

I also own a S&W Sigma 40V with over 1200 rounds through it it is as accurate as the glocks and HK USP which I have been allowed to fire at the range (people took pity on me & were curious to fire my cheap guns)
Sigma's trigger takes getting used to.
Sigma 40v $325.

Both Guns are from S&W both have a lifetime warranty (you will probably never need it).

The DE department of Probation & Parole carries Sigma 40v. I see officers at the range prcaticing with them. They find them reliable (issued 4 years ago) and accurate.

Septa transit police carry S&W 3rd generation autos and find them reliablethey were also allowed to carry glock and chose the S&W instead.
 
Price does not indicate quality any more. Some of the cheapest guns I've owned have been flawless and some of the most expensive have been junk. You have to take your chances and pony up the cash and give one a try, if it turns out to be no good then trade it off. I wouldn't trust any gun with my life until I had put 500-1000 rounds through it and found it reliable.

You can take two identical pistols from the same manufacturer and one could be junk and the other a jewel. The only way to really know is to prove it to yourself, and that in itself is a lot of fun.

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TJS
 
I would not trust the Llama 1911 clone. Poor metalurgy. A friend bought one and it stopped cocking. Upon examination, I found that a portion of the sear had sheared off. A Colt sear was fitted and the gun worked after that.

Norinco makes a good 1911. While some comestic and finish issues may arise, it is a solid gun and a good platform to customize (if your into it).

The Astra "Sig" clone appears to be good, but is not a straightforward copy of the Sig. I believe that it is ambidextrious (decockers on both sides) and that the setup is very different from the Sig. One thing I liked about the Astra is that it is steel framed.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I would not have a problem with the Arkus if it proved reliable and had the mods done that I like on a HP. Same for the Norinco, though the frame and slide may be the only things I keep on it. For the most unmodifed clone I see great potential in the DAC-394 and I have friends that have good things to say about the Astra.
 
How about the EAA Witness in .45? Is it as cool as it seems? I held one today and REALLY liked it. Didn't find one fault with the weapon but didn't fire it, either. :)
Could this be my perfect compromise between price and quality? Even my fiancee likes this one.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
If you really want an inexpensive self defense semiauto, I'd think about a Ruger. Very reliable and pretty inexpensive. Downside is size - there are pretty big, but if you can't carry, there isn't a problem.
 
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